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IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

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Re: IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

#31

Post by dragonwriter »

SoftTalker wrote: post #17
Alupis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone elaborate on what specifically something like this would be used for? I would imagine if you're going through the pain of migrating off Oracle, picking something like IvorySQL is just a half-measure. Why not just make the switch to PostgreSQL (or other) and be done with worrying about compatibility? How long will this project last, and how great will the compatibility actually be - is it a drop-in replace…

If you're using an ORM then you're by default using the database fairly generically. I'd ask why you are paying for any commercial DB in that case. Organizations who committed to and paid for Oracle are probably using a lot of the features that are unique to Oracle. Or they have a lot of legacy that is. If IvorySQL can take all their custom plsql packages and ETL batch jobs and run them without changes that's a big w…

> If IvorySQL can take all their custom plsql packages and ETL batch jobs and run them without changes that's a big win.

It's a big win even if it just substantially reduces the transition cost, though being completely drop-in would be even better.

Re: IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

#32

Post by supportlocal4h »

I want compatability in a whole different direction. Let's get really crazy and rip the db out from under vendor solutions. Let their app with its compiled in Oracle driver communicate with a Pg server. We'll completely void any support contract we have, but at least we'll be Oracle free!

Can you imagine just swapping in Postgres under a Peoplesoft deployment? As long as you don't make me actually attempt it, it makes me chuckle.

Re: IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

#33

Post by chasil »

rnd0 wrote: post #13

Wiped out by Oracle's legal team (patents, whatever) in 4...3...2...

Were they going to wipe out the SQL/PSM standard that has been approved by ISO?

"SQL/PSM is derived, seemingly directly, from Oracle's PL/SQL. Oracle developed PL/SQL and released it in 1991, basing the language on the US Department of Defense's Ada programming language."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL/PSM

They can always wipe out the Ada programming language while they're at it.

Re: IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

#34

Post by chasil »

okaram wrote: post #30
nnurmanov wrote: post #22

Here is another approach from AWS https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/goodbye-microsoft-sql-serve...

But that one is for MS SQL Server, not Oracle

It's postgres, but implementing TDS. It is important to understand that the networking is not the server.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabular_Data_Stream

I use freetds in many places.

https://www.freetds.org/

I don't think that the programming language inside Sybase/Microsoft SQL Server, known as Transact-SQL, has been implemented in postgres, but I could be wrong.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transact-SQL

Microsoft does not implement SQL/PSM in SQL Server. They need to do so. Immediately.

Re: IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

#35

Post by kiratp »

supportlocal4h wrote: post #32

I want compatability in a whole different direction. Let's get really crazy and rip the db out from under vendor solutions. Let their app with its compiled in Oracle driver communicate with a Pg server. We'll completely void any support contract we have, but at least we'll be Oracle free! Can you imagine just swapping in Postgres under a Peoplesoft deployment? As long as you don't make me actually attempt it, it make…

The software license will still stop you from doing that. No business that would need Oracle will run Oracle software knowingly violating the license.

Re: IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

#36

Post by chasil »

skissane wrote: post #7
paulryanrogers wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IvorySQL has imported and enhanced the Orafce extension to add support for numerous Oracle compatibility features including built-in PACKAGES, data types, and conversion functions Sounds and looks like a fork to me. EnterpriseDB used to offer some Oracle compatibility built on Pg, as a fork IIRC. Don't see it on their site any more though. EDIT: Much thanks to replies with links to EDB.

Does it need to be a fork, as opposed to just an extension? I understand why upstream Postgres might not want to put Oracle compatibility in the core, since it would be adding a lot of crud which only a minority of people would benefit from. However, making sure the Postgres core has the extension points necessary to support extensions providing compatibility with Oracle (or DB2, MSSQL, MySQL, etc), is something they…

The postgres 15 manual has a chapter on Oracle compatibility.

I don't know where to find it on their website, but the docs RPM that they provide bundles the PDF.

Re: IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

#38

Post by chasil »

rst wrote: post #24
paulryanrogers wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IvorySQL has imported and enhanced the Orafce extension to add support for numerous Oracle compatibility features including built-in PACKAGES, data types, and conversion functions Sounds and looks like a fork to me. EnterpriseDB used to offer some Oracle compatibility built on Pg, as a fork IIRC. Don't see it on their site any more though. EDIT: Much thanks to replies with links to EDB.

Also, their docs leave me wondering about the level of Oracle compatibility they're claiming. Their page on the subject, https://www.ivorysql.org/docs/compatibillity_features/hierar... , lists a bunch of immediate sore points -- date types and functions, the CONNECT BY query syntax, etc. But there are other things Oracle supports that are not listed, and still potentially serious stumbling blocks -- "fast" (increment…

I'll just fire this up, create some external tables, and use the v7 join syntax to write out my data with utl_file.

Re: IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

#39

Post by chasil »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #9
paulryanrogers wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IvorySQL has imported and enhanced the Orafce extension to add support for numerous Oracle compatibility features including built-in PACKAGES, data types, and conversion functions Sounds and looks like a fork to me. EnterpriseDB used to offer some Oracle compatibility built on Pg, as a fork IIRC. Don't see it on their site any more though. EDIT: Much thanks to replies with links to EDB.

That was the whole hook for EnterpriseDB. They still sell the product: https://www.enterprisedb.com/products/edb-enterprise The difference here is that the EnterpriseDB product is not open source.

IBM Db/2 also bought it, and uses it to implement SQL/PSM.

https://www.enterprisedb.com/resources/ibmr-puts-oracle-swor...

Re: IvorySQL: Open-source Oracle-compatible PostgreSQL

#40

Post by skissane »

chasil wrote: post #36
skissane wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it need to be a fork, as opposed to just an extension? I understand why upstream Postgres might not want to put Oracle compatibility in the core, since it would be adding a lot of crud which only a minority of people would benefit from. However, making sure the Postgres core has the extension points necessary to support extensions providing compatibility with Oracle (or DB2, MSSQL, MySQL, etc), is something they…

The postgres 15 manual has a chapter on Oracle compatibility. I don't know where to find it on their website, but the docs RPM that they provide bundles the PDF.

You are probably thinking of ECPG's "Oracle compatibility mode", which makes it behave more like Oracle Pro*C - https://www.postgresql.org/docs/15/ecpg-oracle-compat.html

However, few people actually use Pro*C nowadays. I spent almost 10 years working for Oracle, and I never once came across anybody using it. I think almost all use of it is in legacy applications which date back to the 1980s, first half of the 1990s at the latest. Obviously still enough use for Oracle to keep on supporting it, even with some occasional minor enhancements, but rather fringe all the same.

I don't think many people use ECPG either. I'm sure some people must, but I myself have never seen it. Probably most use is in porting existing applications from Oracle Pro*C, or its equivalents such as Informix E/SQL. Actually, it is interesting to observe that the section on ECPG's Informix compatibility mode is a lot longer than the Oracle equivalent. I don't know if that's because less compatibility is required (maybe Pro*C is closer to ECPG already), or if that's because Informix compatibility has received more investment.

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