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Tor Browser 12.0

blog.torproject.org

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Re: Tor Browser 12.0

#31

Post by sterlind »

optimalsolver wrote: post #9

The inescapable fact about Tor is that its traffic patterns make you stand out prominently. Just the fact you’re using it automatically makes you interesting and worthy of a closer look. All well and good if you’re just maintaining a cookie recipe site on the dark web, but it’s rarely ever that, is it?

a closer look maybe, but unless they break Tor they'll only have a close look at your timing traffic.

if you're worried, you could use a popular VPN to connect to Tor - using a VPN is less interesting. also, P2P app developers could consider running non-exit nodes in their clients for popular apps. there shouldn't be legal risks unless you're running an exit node, and this adds more noise to the signal of Tor users.

Re: Tor Browser 12.0

#32

Post by kube-system »

treebeard901 wrote: post #17
optimalsolver wrote: post #9

The inescapable fact about Tor is that its traffic patterns make you stand out prominently. Just the fact you’re using it automatically makes you interesting and worthy of a closer look. All well and good if you’re just maintaining a cookie recipe site on the dark web, but it’s rarely ever that, is it?

While this is true, it shouldn't make anyone more worthy of a closer look. It's the same argument used to justify mass surveillance. Trying to defend a Constitutional right to privacy, if one exists in your country, does not mean you are automatically trying to hide doing something wrong.

I didn't take the parent comment to be referring to governments. Most of the internet is made up of private organizations, many of which are interested in the traffic they carry.

Re: Tor Browser 12.0

#33

Post by makerofspoons »

ehPReth wrote: post #24
edgyquant wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tor works by proxying through (at least) 3 PCs before hitting the open web. The problem is that you’re trying to download big files which is not a use case for tor. It’s specifically for browsing the web anonymously.

Was it always 7? I seem to remember it being like 3-4?

Connecting to hidden services it's 6 hops, reaching out to the internet it's 3 hops.

Re: Tor Browser 12.0

#34

Post by sterlind »

sasattack wrote: post #18
optimalsolver wrote: post #9

The inescapable fact about Tor is that its traffic patterns make you stand out prominently. Just the fact you’re using it automatically makes you interesting and worthy of a closer look. All well and good if you’re just maintaining a cookie recipe site on the dark web, but it’s rarely ever that, is it?

Also you are providing cover to agents of US intelligence who use it

iirc IC still mostly uses burner shell companies for IPs, at least for running ops. Tor is fine for innocuous browsing but Tor exit nodes will stick out like a sore thumb in the victim's logs or IDS.

Re: Tor Browser 12.0

#35

Post by godelski »

sterlind wrote: post #31
optimalsolver wrote: post #9

The inescapable fact about Tor is that its traffic patterns make you stand out prominently. Just the fact you’re using it automatically makes you interesting and worthy of a closer look. All well and good if you’re just maintaining a cookie recipe site on the dark web, but it’s rarely ever that, is it?

a closer look maybe, but unless they break Tor they'll only have a close look at your timing traffic. if you're worried, you could use a popular VPN to connect to Tor - using a VPN is less interesting. also, P2P app developers could consider running non-exit nodes in their clients for popular apps. there shouldn't be legal risks unless you're running an exit node, and this adds more noise to the signal of Tor users.

Why are exit nodes more legally perilous than non-exit nodes?

Re: Tor Browser 12.0

#36

Post by sterlind »

godelski wrote: post #35
sterlind wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a closer look maybe, but unless they break Tor they'll only have a close look at your timing traffic. if you're worried, you could use a popular VPN to connect to Tor - using a VPN is less interesting. also, P2P app developers could consider running non-exit nodes in their clients for popular apps. there shouldn't be legal risks unless you're running an exit node, and this adds more noise to the signal of Tor users.

Why are exit nodes more legally perilous than non-exit nodes?

they shouldn't be, but there's a practical difference in how often your house gets raided by FBI agents.

if a Tor user uses your exit node to email a bomb threat or access child porn, it's your source IP that shows up. the FBI should check your IP against the registry of exit node IPs, but if they don't it's still your door getting kicked in.

Re: Tor Browser 12.0

#37

Post by yucky »

optimalsolver wrote: post #9

The inescapable fact about Tor is that its traffic patterns make you stand out prominently. Just the fact you’re using it automatically makes you interesting and worthy of a closer look. All well and good if you’re just maintaining a cookie recipe site on the dark web, but it’s rarely ever that, is it?

There is also the inescapable fact that Tor was created by US Intelligence, specifically the US Naval Research Lab[0]. And according to FOIA documents it continues to receive a huge chunk of funding & resources from US Intelligence, particularly from the United States Agency for Global Media (formerly the Broadcasting Board of Governors), which supervises our propaganda channels Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty[1].

As far as I can tell, the US Intelligence community has never explained it's aims/goals for Tor. The fact that Tor not only attracts the type of traffic that US Intelligence would have a lot of interest in monitoring, but also by design then funnels that traffic through a small number of exit nodes, makes it seem self-explanatory. But I wouldn't want to presume anything.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(network)

[1] https://www.documentcloud.org/app?q=%2Bproject%3Athe-tor-fil...

Re: Tor Browser 12.0

#38

Post by input_sh »

super256 wrote: post #27
deadfromtor wrote: post #7

Just FYI that HN is very anti-tor. I made this account via Tor just now to prove the point. It will be dead by default (unless someone "vouches" for it). It's a very user-hostile stance that HN takes (along with not letting you delete your account). It really makes you wonder what they're doing with all this data? Doxxing is almost a given.

How is HN anti-tor? Everyone can read your comment. Wdym by "vouching"? Also, HN deletes your account when you them send a mail as stated in the FAQ. It always sucks to delete accounts with user comments, as it destroys context in old threads. As spiders crawl the web humans should consider anything they post online as undeletable. If you send HN the beforementioned, there is a chance that I can still browse your pos…

> Everyone can read your comment. Wdym by "vouching"?

There's "showdead" profile setting that allows you to see flagged comments, and enough "karma" allows you to vouch for hidden-by-default content.

It's one of those hidden (somewhat) features: https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented#flaggi...

Re: Tor Browser 12.0

#40

Post by bauruine »

ehPReth wrote: post #24
edgyquant wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tor works by proxying through (at least) 3 PCs before hitting the open web. The problem is that you’re trying to download big files which is not a use case for tor. It’s specifically for browsing the web anonymously.

Was it always 7? I seem to remember it being like 3-4?

For a circuit to clearnet it's 3. Guard --> Middle --> Exit. For a onion service it's 6 and the connection is a bit more complicated [0]. The speed varies from very fast to unbearable depending on your circuit and how bad the ddos is at that moment. [1] You can try to create a new and hopefully faster circuit by clicking on the onion symbol on the left in the address bar.

[0] https://github.com/mikeperry-tor/vanguards/blob/master/READM...

[1] https://status.torproject.org/issues/2022-06-09-network-ddos...

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