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Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

bitwarden.com

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Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#31
post #30

That's very nice, well done! For a moment there I had hoped that maybe it would solve the problem in the opposite direction: I'm typing the master password so mechanically when I'm on my laptop, that I really struggle to remember it when I have to type it on a screen - to the point that I must go sit at a computer open a notepad, let muscle memory take over and then look at the screen to see what I typed /facepalm An…

Ha! I can definitely relate. Takes me 3-4 tries to get the password correct on mobile, and not so rarely I have to type it on the computer first.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#32
Waaay at the bottom:

    Note: Logging in with a device is currently only available on the Bitwarden cloud server (https://vault.bitwarden.com).
And even there, I followed all the directions and don't have the 'Log in with device' button. Waste of time.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#34
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As well as what sibling said about it being E2EE and just using a standard API for storage, there are awesome tools these days so you can (and I think should) lock down your instance fairly well. Now when I run services like that I access them exclusively via WireGuard or Nebula, no exposure to the public internet at all. It's reliable, dependable and performant enough to pretty much put everything inside of by defau…

Thanks for the explination! > if you don't have a fixed IP can bounce through even the cheapest VPS instance and still store nothing in the cloud I've been meaning to look into this with wireguard, but I'm having trouble searching for/finding how to do this. Is "bastion host" what I'd want? Also is there a way to ensure the VPS cannot access the network as well, and just tunnels it essentially?

>I've been meaning to look into this with wireguard, but I'm having trouble searching for/finding how to do this. Is "bastion host" what I'd want? Also is there a way to ensure the VPS cannot access the network as well, and just tunnels it essentially?

First, yes a search phrase like that should get you the right terms, though there isn't anything inherently special about it. If multiple systems are connected to one system with wireguard giving them all access to a given subnet is straight forward. As far as the VPS, it can indeed access that subnet too, since it's acting as part of the subnet, but you can use normal firewall rules on the far side internally to control what can talk to what and how. And in this kind of specific instance the WG is more about controller public facing surface area, the Bitwarden/Vaultwarden traffic in flight is itself encrypted.

Second though, having said all that I think if you worried about the VPS bit (or even if not) you should take a look at the Nebula SDN [0, 1] instead. It's built on the Noise encryption framework as well. There, the fixed IP node (the "Lighthouse") primarily acts to let other nodes know their mutual addresses, and they then attempt to form a direct link with no bouncing through a bastion, it's a real mesh. This generally works even if both are NAT'd, and if not it's transparent fallback and still encrypted between them. Depending on distance between nodes this can be a lot lower latency as well. With Nebula you establish an internal CA (super easy built-in tool for it) and that doesn't (and absolutely shouldn't) live on the lighthouse.

I'm fortunate enough to have fixed IPs available to me at home and office and have tended to use WG a lot just because it's had more advanced support and performance in constrained environments for me (kernel support in Linux and now BSDs). Nebula has been super slick though and I've been using it more and more. It makes all this really easy.

Anyway, hope this helps a bit. It's really exciting to me how much open source networking power is now available to everyone. It's a bit of a counter decentralization force IMO to the last few decades push towards central service providers.

----

0: https://github.com/slackhq/nebula

1: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/12/how-to-set-up-your-o... (note 3 years old, there are now Android/iOS clients as well and things are further refined)

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#35

I just looked at the requirements to host your own Bitwarden server. Why does a password manager need 2GB of ram (4GB recommended) and 25GB[1] of storage? That seems quite excessive, how much data and traffic does this thing need to handle for me plus family members? [1] https://bitwarden.com/help/install-on-premise-linux/

Honest question: do you believe that you’ll be able to guarantee the same/better uptime, performance, and security compared to the SaaS version? Hosting your own password manager seems like something you really shouldn’t do, just like hosting your own e-mail. This stuff is critical to your life.

Same or better uptime might not be granted, but I've been hosting my instance for quite a bit of time now, and the only downtime I've had were due to my ISP. I'm using vaultwarden too (bitwarden_rs when I first deployed it), and have absolutely no complains whatsoever.

Also, after your device synced with the server at least once, you can still access and export all your passwords, even if the server is down. This is the main selling point for me : even in a disaster scenario, your passwords are "naturally" replicated.

Mine is exposed behind a reverse proxy, with a subdomain != Bitwarden, and a wildcard certificate. Never seen anything weird in the logs since (before, I had a named certificate including subdomain, and I was seeing regular pokes from unknown IPs, so better be on the safe side)

Again, the main bitwarden instance is a huge target. Mine is just a small instance with less than 10 users, which will probably never encounter a targeted attack.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Hosting your own is a twenty minute setup, more or less, and $5/mo on Hetzner. Uptime, in my experience, is 5 nines. With SaaS, I am losing the main reason that I am using Bitwarden - that I don't want the X agency to force Bitwarden to give them my passwords. And I know that if said agency (it varies by country and target) could definitely hack the VPS if I was important enough, that is not part of my threat p…

I think if X agency wants your information the $5 wrench attack will probably bypass your self-hosted server infrastructure.

If X agency uses the wrench attack then you know you’ve been breached

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#37
post #30

That's very nice, well done! For a moment there I had hoped that maybe it would solve the problem in the opposite direction: I'm typing the master password so mechanically when I'm on my laptop, that I really struggle to remember it when I have to type it on a screen - to the point that I must go sit at a computer open a notepad, let muscle memory take over and then look at the screen to see what I typed /facepalm An…

Ha! I can definitely relate. Takes me 3-4 tries to get the password correct on mobile, and not so rarely I have to type it on the computer first.

I'm in exactly the same boat. Incapable of typing my master password on a mobile screen because it's just muscle memory.

I've had times where I've needed to get into my account in a hurry and had to find a POS terminal with a keyboard so I could activate the muscle memory.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#38

Waaay at the bottom: Note: Logging in with a device is currently only available on the Bitwarden cloud server (https://vault.bitwarden.com). And even there, I followed all the directions and don't have the 'Log in with device' button. Waste of time.

Maybe a progressive rollout. Perhaps the announcement is premature or lack that detail, if accurate.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#39
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: do you believe that you’ll be able to guarantee the same/better uptime, performance, and security compared to the SaaS version? Hosting your own password manager seems like something you really shouldn’t do, just like hosting your own e-mail. This stuff is critical to your life.

Same or better uptime might not be granted, but I've been hosting my instance for quite a bit of time now, and the only downtime I've had were due to my ISP. I'm using vaultwarden too (bitwarden_rs when I first deployed it), and have absolutely no complains whatsoever. Also, after your device synced with the server at least once, you can still access and export all your passwords, even if the server is down. This is…

> Also, after your device synced with the server at least once, you can still access and export all your passwords, even if the server is down. This is the main selling point for me : even in a disaster scenario, your passwords are "naturally" replicated.

Watch out for the browser extension clients though - they're prone to session expiry and insisting you relogin which is a problem if the remote server is down or gone.

Re: Passwordless Authentication – Access Your Bitwarden Web Vault Without a Password

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Hosting your own is a twenty minute setup, more or less, and $5/mo on Hetzner. Uptime, in my experience, is 5 nines. With SaaS, I am losing the main reason that I am using Bitwarden - that I don't want the X agency to force Bitwarden to give them my passwords. And I know that if said agency (it varies by country and target) could definitely hack the VPS if I was important enough, that is not part of my threat p…

I think if X agency wants your information the $5 wrench attack will probably bypass your self-hosted server infrastructure.

All bets are off if you've got the man taking a wrench to your shins.
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