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Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

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Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#31

As a Canadian I want to point out this article is quite misleading. The issue is far more systemic than this article claims. In Canada MAID is the 6th leading cause of death, and is rising so fast it is basically guaranteed to be the 3rd cause by 2025. Doctors that will not back the MAID initiative are fired, every year they expand the criteria under which you can be euthanize, right now they want to expand it to inc…

> Their are reports of children and confused elderly being tricked into euthanasia without their families knowledge

Interesting, can you provide links to these reports? It's a pretty serious assertion.

Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#32
post #22
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I would also make this bet, there's a reason why economics is sometimes called "the dismal science" — the resources that went into making a stairlift (and proportional share of the factory) could, in principle, have instead been used to build enough mosquito nets to save approximately one life, while also improving the quality of life for another thousand. Even if you're not being as much of a colossal arse as…

>Even if you're not being as much of a colossal arse as the headline of this story, which do you think is a better thing for money to be spent on? The problem is no first world country is anywhere near finding itself in such position. Resources are limited, but more often than not the problem lies in the allocation of those resources. If Canada can spend thousands of hundreds of dollars on bringing a giant rubber duc…

None of what I wrote, nor the rest of this comment, is meant to defend the veterans service agent in this story.

I'd agree the problem is resource allocation. But also, my understanding is that basically every country has some problems funding healthcare right now — at a government level, it's not one stairlift but all stairlifts collectively, it's not one malaria net but the continuing existence of malaria, it's not one overweight person but the consequences of half the population being obese, not one person who needs oxygen at the beginning of an respiratory infection but an entire pandemic overwhelming the national supply of ICUs simultaneously, not one person whose condom broke but the entire HIV+ population as a whole, and so on.

We can, and have, picked a few things to totally eliminate, leaving us more to spend on the rest, but at the same time there are many issues we can't ignore in the short term just to speed up the permanent elimination of other issues.

But yeah, a $100,000 inflatable duck has an opportunity cost of saving 20 lives. I have literally no idea if that kind of thing generates more locally to make up for that cost — art inspires people in general, but I don't know how to quantify that in quality or quantity of lives, because while utilitarianism claims it can do that it leaves too many variables unspecified to actually do anything.

Likewise, even if you're inhumanly cold-blooded about human suffering, sports and athletics competitions drive public fitness, whereas blasé attitudes to encouraging people to kill themselves leads to other social harms (this is why I'm not comfortable with the decriminalisation of assisted suicide despite the fact that I believe the various desperately ill people who are suffering greatly say they want it as an option).

Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#33

As a Canadian I want to point out this article is quite misleading. The issue is far more systemic than this article claims. In Canada MAID is the 6th leading cause of death, and is rising so fast it is basically guaranteed to be the 3rd cause by 2025. Doctors that will not back the MAID initiative are fired, every year they expand the criteria under which you can be euthanize, right now they want to expand it to inc…

I was curious what 6th leading cause of death means in terms of percentages. From the annual report on MAID (medical assistance in dying) in Canada:

> In 2021, there were 10,064 MAID provisions reported in Canada, accounting for 3.3% of all deaths in Canada.

> The number of cases of MAID in 2021 represents a growth rate of 32.4% over 2020. All provinces continue to experience a steady year over year growth.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi...

Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#34
post #33

As a Canadian I want to point out this article is quite misleading. The issue is far more systemic than this article claims. In Canada MAID is the 6th leading cause of death, and is rising so fast it is basically guaranteed to be the 3rd cause by 2025. Doctors that will not back the MAID initiative are fired, every year they expand the criteria under which you can be euthanize, right now they want to expand it to inc…

I was curious what 6th leading cause of death means in terms of percentages. From the annual report on MAID (medical assistance in dying) in Canada: > In 2021, there were 10,064 MAID provisions reported in Canada, accounting for 3.3% of all deaths in Canada. > The number of cases of MAID in 2021 represents a growth rate of 32.4% over 2020. All provinces continue to experience a steady year over year growth. https://w…

Yes, tho percentage is not a great way of interpolating the data since it has been 99% linear since its inception with a slope averaging 1.7k additional deaths per year.

Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#35

As a Canadian I want to point out this article is quite misleading. The issue is far more systemic than this article claims. In Canada MAID is the 6th leading cause of death, and is rising so fast it is basically guaranteed to be the 3rd cause by 2025. Doctors that will not back the MAID initiative are fired, every year they expand the criteria under which you can be euthanize, right now they want to expand it to inc…

> Their are reports of children and confused elderly being tricked into euthanasia without their families knowledge Interesting, can you provide links to these reports? It's a pretty serious assertion.

A quick google search did not return anything, mainstream media does not cover stories like this, and I cannot remember where I read these stories. I know the last one I read was about a family suing the government to stop the euthanasia of their son(I believe). And I have read articles similar to this one of the elderly going to the hospital and being offered euthanasia instead of medical care.

I did find this forbes article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/gusalexiou/2022/08/15/canadas-n...) that talked about a troubling case I had not heard or and included lots of details about the whole system.

But when all you need is a nurse practitioner and a signature from someone with dementia or other mentally crippling disease, of course things like this will happen. Agree or disagree with how some European countries do it, this is not that same thing. The people pushing this are the doctors and nurses you go to to get medial treatment from, and the oversight is non-existent.

Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their are reports of children and confused elderly being tricked into euthanasia without their families knowledge Interesting, can you provide links to these reports? It's a pretty serious assertion.

A quick google search did not return anything, mainstream media does not cover stories like this, and I cannot remember where I read these stories. I know the last one I read was about a family suing the government to stop the euthanasia of their son(I believe). And I have read articles similar to this one of the elderly going to the hospital and being offered euthanasia instead of medical care. I did find this forbe…

From where I sit it seems like your perception on this topic is quite different then the reality.

Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#37
post #8

Sad but unsurprising story. How do you reach your targeted cost per user without implementing death panels? “Sympathetic” agents will feel this pressure more and more, but there is a way to avoid this solution that is even more insidious. No need to preemptively offer to help kill somebody. Just make their life so miserable that they ask for it. Refusing them the medical care they need to not be miserable will go a l…

Just wait until you hear about insurance companies.

Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#38
This whole article and comment thread is a strawman, in that it presents a single case in spmething that simply should not be adjudicated on a case by case basis.

Euthanasia, death panels, palliative care management, healthcare budgets, transparency or lack thereof ...

These are all (full stop) system level decisions. Show us all the data, all the decisions, all the controls, all the dollars.

Then as a society we decide the parameters, the gray areas, and then each case fits in one area or another.

Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#39
post #8

Sad but unsurprising story. How do you reach your targeted cost per user without implementing death panels? “Sympathetic” agents will feel this pressure more and more, but there is a way to avoid this solution that is even more insidious. No need to preemptively offer to help kill somebody. Just make their life so miserable that they ask for it. Refusing them the medical care they need to not be miserable will go a l…

Just wait until you hear about insurance companies.

Yeah when it's the entity with a monopoly on force it's more insidious

Re: Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

#40

As a Canadian I want to point out this article is quite misleading. The issue is far more systemic than this article claims. In Canada MAID is the 6th leading cause of death, and is rising so fast it is basically guaranteed to be the 3rd cause by 2025. Doctors that will not back the MAID initiative are fired, every year they expand the criteria under which you can be euthanize, right now they want to expand it to inc…

> Their are reports of children and confused elderly being tricked into euthanasia without their families knowledge Interesting, can you provide links to these reports? It's a pretty serious assertion.

From google

Terminally ill children as young as 12 should have euthanasia choice, expert panel urges

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/terminally-ill-children...

Canadian Bill to Allow Euthanasia of Dementia Patients

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/canadian-bill-to-allow...

FIRST READING: To countries considering legal euthanasia, Canada a model of what not to do

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/first-reading-to-count...

EXCLUSIVE: Doctors slam Canada's 'perverted' new law that allows people to be EUTHANIZED if they are suffering from mental health problems

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11440261/Canada-e...

What Euthanasia Has Done to Canada

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/03/opinion/canada-euthanasia...

Canadian man claims assisted suicide is being pushed on him by hospital

https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-...

Assisted Suicide for Poverty

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/assisted-suicide-for-p...

Canada opens door to expanding assisted dying

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-51620021

Canada expanding assisted suicide law to include the mentally ill, possibly enable 'mature minors'

https://www.foxnews.com/media/canadas-expanding-assisted-sui...

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