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Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#31

Post by jcal93 »

altacc wrote: post #19

There's been a lot of talk recently about effects of loneliness and the "loneliness epidemic". What a lot of this lacks, including this article, is a good and correct definition of loneliness. They seem to use the lazy & inaccurate definition of "spending significant time alone", which is very different to being lonely. There's a lot of people who are now able to spend more time alone than before and are happy with t…

I agree. There's a big difference in being lonely and being alone. There's also a big difference between isolation and loneliness. You can be isolated but not lonely, and likewise you can be lonely and surrounded by folks.

The other facet here is that it's easier to choose loneliness than isolation, though it's less likely to be chosen directly. I feel like it's chosen indirectly by choosing avoidance of vulnerability. Vulnerability is the price you pay and risk you take to ameliorate loneliness.

Hardly anyone can fully become isolated. You have to work to live, and so by default you are forcefully un-isolated. Loneliness however can come about by avoiding being vulnerable with others. Men seem to be particularly susceptible to this avenue to loneliness.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#33

Post by Zababa »

> You can help reverse these trends today without waiting for the researchers and policymakers to figure it all out. It’s the holidays: Don’t skip Thanksgiving with your family. Go to that holiday party (or throw one yourself). Go hang out with friends for coffee, or a hike, or in a museum, or a concert — whatever. You will feel better, create memories, boost your health, stumble across valuable information — and so will your companions.

So it's not "we should reverse that" but "you should reverse that". I'm always suspicious of text filled with "we", "us" , "our" where the group is never well defined. This is an opinion piece, written by an economist, that finds it "safe to assume" things. It is also notable that the author never really justifies that Americans chose to be alone, they just did.

All in all, I think it's too light to be taken seriously. For example, is this the first time in history that people are spending more time alone? If not, can we find some events or context that caused this? What were the consequences? Did things change? How? What breaks my heart is that there's a good chance someone, somewhere has spent a lot of time and energy studying this topic and sharing the results for everyone to benefit, but instead here's a piece trying to make people feel guilty about actions they may not have control over.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#34

Post by tarboreus »

naikrovek wrote: post #13
mym1990 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you anticipate you will be lonely in a decade's time(but not currently)? And do you think you are a toxin based on your observation of the general species?

unfortunately, humans are a social species and the toll of being alone adds up over time. I try to avoid people so that I don't darken their day and they don't darken mine. I consider staying away from others a very small gift to them. people are mean, selfish assholes and are by default competitive and adversarial, by nature. we are a doomed species, and are unworthy of existence, in my opinion.

Sounds like you're in a dark place. I hope things improve.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#35

Post by germinalphrase »

Forge36 wrote: post #20
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #2

Robert Putnam already explained why this is happening but since it's not an acceptable answer, we march on and pretend to be mystified.

Can you elaborate on what they said?

“He then asked: "Why is US social capital eroding?" and discussed several possible causes.[1] He believed that the "movement of women into the workforce"[1] and other demographic changes had an impact on the number of individuals engaging in civic associations. He also discussed the "re-potting hypothesis", that people become less engaged when they frequently move towns, but found that Americans actually moved towns less frequently than in previous decades.[1][3] He did suggest that suburbanization, economics and time pressures had some effect, though he noted that average working hours had shortened. He concluded the main cause was technology "individualizing" people's leisure time via television and the Internet, suspecting that "virtual reality helmets" would carry this further in the future.[1]”

Via Wikipedia

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#36

Post by sethammons »

naikrovek wrote: post #5

the article doesn't seem attribute the desire to be alone to anything, other than saying that it got a lot more common during the pandemic, but I can say why I prefer to be alone: no judgement, no one makes fun of me, no one takes advantage of me, and no one steals from me. the one and only bad thing for me is that being lonely sucks. I am not lonely, but I probably will be in a decade's time. being alone adds up ove…

> there is no such thing as a "friend." there are only people who will pretend to be a partner or friend in order to make it easier for them to steal from you unnoticed

Um. No. A thousand times, "no." Yes, there are people that will steal from you and there are people who will pretend to be your friend. Friends totally exist.

We recently moved and our old neighbors and friends are taking care of the yard for us while it sells. For no other reason than to help. When we arrived to the new house, a new neighbor came over to help unload the truck just to help out. We've been here months and aside from casual greetings, that has been the extent to our relationship -- not a friend (yet!) and still not having other motivations. I help people when and where I can whenever. I once had an oncoming car flip and nearly collide with me. I stopped, helped them out, and waited for the tow truck and gave them a ride home, just because they needed some help. I never saw them again.

I'm sorry that your experiences have jaded your view. Know that your experiences are not universal. Maybe you need a new environment.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#37

Post by gherkinnn »

ilaksh wrote: post #11

A few thoughts: 1. The internet means we have many forms of entertainment available without needing to go anywhere. 2. Many of those are social activities, even though we are physically alone. This is completely different from being totally isolated (as implied by the article). 3. The declining economic situation affects the ability of people to pursue leisure activities that would involve actually going somewhere th…

I find this very hard to believe. Real interactions are so rich, how could these goggles even hope to get there in a few years?

What is having dinner together if you didn’t even eat the same? And this is the most banal example I could think of.

I’d sooner become an actual hermit than to share a soggy McD burger over VR.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#38

Post by mym1990 »

naikrovek wrote: post #13
mym1990 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you anticipate you will be lonely in a decade's time(but not currently)? And do you think you are a toxin based on your observation of the general species?

unfortunately, humans are a social species and the toll of being alone adds up over time. I try to avoid people so that I don't darken their day and they don't darken mine. I consider staying away from others a very small gift to them. people are mean, selfish assholes and are by default competitive and adversarial, by nature. we are a doomed species, and are unworthy of existence, in my opinion.

Thanks for sharing, human history is indeed littered with brutal events and these things build further hate for future generations, if they choose not to let go of the past.

Despite that, the world and the universe has almost unlimited beauty, but it is ultimately up to an individual person to find and see it.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#39

Post by jimkleiber »

jcal93 wrote: post #31
altacc wrote: post #19

There's been a lot of talk recently about effects of loneliness and the "loneliness epidemic". What a lot of this lacks, including this article, is a good and correct definition of loneliness. They seem to use the lazy & inaccurate definition of "spending significant time alone", which is very different to being lonely. There's a lot of people who are now able to spend more time alone than before and are happy with t…

I agree. There's a big difference in being lonely and being alone. There's also a big difference between isolation and loneliness. You can be isolated but not lonely, and likewise you can be lonely and surrounded by folks. The other facet here is that it's easier to choose loneliness than isolation, though it's less likely to be chosen directly. I feel like it's chosen indirectly by choosing avoidance of vulnerabilit…

For me a lot of loneliness is emotional distancing from others and especially from ourselves.

Re: Americans are choosing to be alone, but we should reverse that

#40

Post by asdff »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #28
nullish_signal wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The bad economy means you can't meet people in real life. But soon, everyone will buy VR goggles and hang out on rented servers!" Am I mis-understanding something here? Just go on a hike, walking is free.

> Just go on a hike, walking is free. If the webshits on here could work out a way to monetize hiking, they will.

It won't be long until some drone based sky billboard company emerges from the ether, strongarms/bribes local government into allowing its exclusive use, and then you are tracked as you walk your hiking trail by a herd of advertising drones that cost just a dime less than the hypothetical number they generate from your annoyed, halfway focused attention.

It's coming. I hope some good people here on HN are working on an open source 3d printed EMP cannon.

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