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How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

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Re: How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

#31
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A strong argument in favor of rooting out ideologically unaligned thinking. Would you want a communist working in the US government? Clearly they would be far more likely to sympathize with the Soviet Union than a capitalist would.

Most anglosphere communists I know have a term for such people: tankies. And they hate them: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tankie

[deleted]

Re: How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

#32
post #28

Traffic analysis but applied to leave, advancement and record keeping. Second order effects indicative of first order function. If you can obtain the telephone directory and track it over time and it has job titles you can probably reconstruct the history of IBM, which party is in power, whatever, for the institution which publishes it. And what the role and career progression is for the longterm players. What does i…

If you’re looking for a modern version of this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Manageme...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_medical_data_breach

I don’t know if it’s covered in there but these two incidents ended up exposing everyone inside the CIA if I remember the details correctly.

Re: How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

#33
post #15

Throughout the Cold War, it was accepted common knowledge around American intelligence circles that our side had never successfully inserted agents into the USSR because their counterintelligence was so effective. I always wondered whether this was really true or whether it was just a cover story spread by our side to give the Soviets a false sense of security. There were known cases of insider espionage, but they we…

Worth noting that American intelligence has been on point about Russia for the past year. They alerted everyone else that the Russian army's "manoeuvres" in February were an actual invasion. Even the Ukrainians didn't believe them initially, but were finally convinced. This was critical in allowing them time to get their defence in order before the Russian tanks started rolling.

So no, it seems like the FSB is doing a poor job compared to the KGB.

Re: How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

#35
post #16

For anyone is into this kind of thing I would suggest checking out The Team House on YouTube which has a lot of very in-depth interviews with some very recently retired CIA folks talking about their experiences in the field. Given a lot of the crazy shit I hear come up in the comments here every time the CIA tends to get mentioned in almost any context this might actually be a good resource for a lot of folks here to…

Why would I trust these interviews with clandestine operatives as being factual?

Re: How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

#36
post #33
post #15

Throughout the Cold War, it was accepted common knowledge around American intelligence circles that our side had never successfully inserted agents into the USSR because their counterintelligence was so effective. I always wondered whether this was really true or whether it was just a cover story spread by our side to give the Soviets a false sense of security. There were known cases of insider espionage, but they we…

Worth noting that American intelligence has been on point about Russia for the past year. They alerted everyone else that the Russian army's "manoeuvres" in February were an actual invasion. Even the Ukrainians didn't believe them initially, but were finally convinced. This was critical in allowing them time to get their defence in order before the Russian tanks started rolling. So no, it seems like the FSB is doing…

The FSB didn't know about the invasion, because the top brass didn't tell them.

Re: How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

#37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A strong argument in favor of rooting out ideologically unaligned thinking. Would you want a communist working in the US government? Clearly they would be far more likely to sympathize with the Soviet Union than a capitalist would.

The UK conservative party employs several ex Revolutionary Communist Party (extreme trotskyist) advisors. Sometimes, if you want a job done, these are the people who know how to get things done. Bannon used to be a performative maoist?

Those people? Claire Fox and the LM crowd? They're professional contrarians. Very good at picking the side most guaranteed to make people angry, which is how they went seamlessly from far left to far right.

Re: How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

#38
post #37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK conservative party employs several ex Revolutionary Communist Party (extreme trotskyist) advisors. Sometimes, if you want a job done, these are the people who know how to get things done. Bannon used to be a performative maoist?

Those people? Claire Fox and the LM crowd? They're professional contrarians. Very good at picking the side most guaranteed to make people angry, which is how they went seamlessly from far left to far right.

Yes, those people, what they learned was political praxis: How to succeed and win an argument. How to be effective, in a minority, how to dominate a room. I was a member of a less rigid, less orthodox, (markedly less effective!) socialist student movement in the UK at a similar time as them in the late 70s and I know some, a little, of how they operate. An older generation in the SDS learned similar lessons during the anti Vietnam war campaign in the USA.

Some anticommunists fail to understand or believe you can ever cease to be a communist. Arguably, they're right: there are political lessons which can't be unlearned. Putin is anything but a communist, Russia is not a socialist state. Do you think Putin has unlearned what he learned across the sixties and seventies and eighties as a loyal party member? Different to Claire Fox but similar lessons learned I would argue.

Re: How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

#39
post #16

For anyone is into this kind of thing I would suggest checking out The Team House on YouTube which has a lot of very in-depth interviews with some very recently retired CIA folks talking about their experiences in the field. Given a lot of the crazy shit I hear come up in the comments here every time the CIA tends to get mentioned in almost any context this might actually be a good resource for a lot of folks here to…

Why would I trust these interviews with clandestine operatives as being factual?

You are exactly the kind of person I had in mind when I made that original comment.

Re: How to explain the KGB's success identifying CIA agents in the field (2015)

#40
post #32
post #28

Traffic analysis but applied to leave, advancement and record keeping. Second order effects indicative of first order function. If you can obtain the telephone directory and track it over time and it has job titles you can probably reconstruct the history of IBM, which party is in power, whatever, for the institution which publishes it. And what the role and career progression is for the longterm players. What does i…

If you’re looking for a modern version of this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Manageme... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_medical_data_breach I don’t know if it’s covered in there but these two incidents ended up exposing everyone inside the CIA if I remember the details correctly.

I found the fitbit geolocation thing (exercising with a fitbit in secret location camps, logging your reps to Facebook &c) a good example of "oops"
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