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What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

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Re: What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

#31

Post by ravi-delia »

stareatgoats wrote: post #18

The site is down so I can only speculate what it recommends. Whatever it is, I suspect it is not a list of suggestions for how to avoid nuclear disasters altogether. Because that is simply not in vogue. It seems we must all accept as something inevitable to have the specter of millions dead, if not billions, if not life as we know it, hanging over our heads for time eternal. Because we as humans are seemingly only en…

It takes literally 0 imagination to avoid nuclear disasters altogether. A handful of people in the entire world need not to do something extremely stupid. They can leave their special keys at home, overwrite the codes with baseball scores in their mind, and no nuclear apocalypse will happen. The fact that this has not happened is not due to a failure of imagination. That doesn't mean the reason is good, obviously, but doesn't the idea that we should be blaming a pdf seem a little silly to you?

The sword of Damocles is indeed hanging over our heads. Morons hung it there, and morons stand around waiting to prevent anyone from taking it down. We should push towards denuclearization, and we shouldn't compromise. But also, we should have better public transportation. Doesn't mean that anyone mentioning seat belts is just a firm believer in the specter of car accidents. If you take the threat of these morons-in-charge and their nukes seriously (as I do), can't you see why someone might want to maximize their and their family's chances of survival? I'll note you haven't presented a solution any single person can work with either- perhaps it is a difficult problem.

Edit: There's an argument to be made that having a fallout shelter would make you more complacent. But I'd expect the average person who is worried enough about nuclear war to dig a bunker is probably more worried with that bunker than the average person is without it. The opposing viewpoints are "nuclear war is potentially possible and very bad" and "nuclear war won't happen". There are probably people who believe in a MAD-style argument for the latter, but my bet is that most of them just don't think through how scared they should be. Things have been fine so far, after all. Nevermind all the warheads just sitting in silos. This silent majority is not thinking about how to survive nuclear war. They, in their heart of hearts, do not think it is a concern.

Re: What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

#32

Post by pfdietz »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #20
andirk wrote: post #16

My dad said they would do air raid drills in elementary school (50's, 60's) due to the fear of a nuclear attack. They were taught to get under their desks.

Apparently getting under their desks was on the off-chance their school is far enough away to avoid being incinerated but still close enough for a pressure wave to blow out all the glass in the windows and turn it into projectiles.

This came in handy when that meteor exploded over Chelyabinsk a few years ago. A teacher remembered the training and had everyone hide under desks, and they were spared laceration from the blown-in windows.

Re: What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

#33

Post by themeiguoren »

I find it almost satirical that a guide on an imminent nuclear disaster is a 13-page pdf of dense text. If the producers of this guide are serious about their mission, this needs to be condensed into a flowchart with short statements and plenty of pictures that can be absorbed quickly. More detailed info can be tacked on the end, but some bolded statements in the middle of a wall of words is not how you communicate in an emergency.

An ICBM will take ~20-30 minutes from launch to hit the US. By the time you are notified, you will have 5-15 minutes to prepare. This goes down to minutes to seconds for dirty bombs/ground detonations or short range missiles (to which the US is not immune thanks to submarines).

Re: What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

#34

Post by rdtwo »

wordyskeleton wrote: post #9
recursivedoubts wrote: post #4

Controversial take, but I'm going to be pretty upset if there is a global thermonuclear war and we all die, I am not going to sugar coat it.

You'll be upset, I'll be frantically filling my bathtub and water mattress with potable water—we are not the same

I’m going outside. I don’t want to survive into the world after. Better to die in the initial flash then die slowly in the aftermath

Re: What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

#35

Post by chasd00 »

tomjen3 wrote: post #24
stareatgoats wrote: post #18

The site is down so I can only speculate what it recommends. Whatever it is, I suspect it is not a list of suggestions for how to avoid nuclear disasters altogether. Because that is simply not in vogue. It seems we must all accept as something inevitable to have the specter of millions dead, if not billions, if not life as we know it, hanging over our heads for time eternal. Because we as humans are seemingly only en…

Russia smashed a missile 10km into Poland, killing 2 and wounding some more. Poland is a NATO member, so that is the likely context of the submission.

heh i think you mean two missiles. investigations still happening so who really knows at this point but not looking good.

Re: What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

#36

Post by wordyskeleton »

rdtwo wrote: post #34
wordyskeleton wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be upset, I'll be frantically filling my bathtub and water mattress with potable water—we are not the same

I’m going outside. I don’t want to survive into the world after. Better to die in the initial flash then die slowly in the aftermath

Can't hear your negativity over the sound of my bathtub approaching 100% capacity.

Re: What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

#37

Post by zwieback »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #3

This reminded me of the better documentary films I have seen, The Atomic Cafe (1982). It is a well-crafted film, with a neat-o formal technique of only using found footage/ audio to describe the history of US atomic-age propaganda. More interestingly to me, it offers a useful commentary about the contradictions between the use of media to present nuclear wars a survivable and possibly necessary event but simultaneous…

I remember Atomic Cafe, when it came out it was pretty popular in Germany, where I grew up. At the time we were assuming we'd be the first to go, being right between the two big atomic powers. Everyone I knew back then assumed there's really nothing you could do, though.

Re: What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

#39

Post by HL33tibCe7 »

stareatgoats wrote: post #18

The site is down so I can only speculate what it recommends. Whatever it is, I suspect it is not a list of suggestions for how to avoid nuclear disasters altogether. Because that is simply not in vogue. It seems we must all accept as something inevitable to have the specter of millions dead, if not billions, if not life as we know it, hanging over our heads for time eternal. Because we as humans are seemingly only en…

What’s your alternative? Everyone agreeing to sit round the campfire, hold hands and sing kumbaya? You can’t possibly be this naive.

There’s something uniquely frustrating about seeing somebody like you, who has a completely naive and childlike worldview, assuming that YOU are just a genius and everyone else is an idiot.

Re: What to do if a nuclear disaster is imminent [pdf]

#40

Post by noefingway »

andirk wrote: post #16

My dad said they would do air raid drills in elementary school (50's, 60's) due to the fear of a nuclear attack. They were taught to get under their desks.

I remember doing these. Air raid sirens would go off, we would dive under out desks, wait until teacher said we could get up. Sometimes we did drills to all march, in an orderly manner, out of the classroom into the basement of the classroom building, or to the locker rooms at the gym. IIRC during the Cuban missile crisis we got sent home early one or two days, but my memory is a bit fuzzy on that. This was in Bethesda, MD, adjacent to DC.

I've lived near Camp David and Site R for 50+ years, so we always joked that if the missiles ever started flying, we'd be the first to know and go.

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