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Opening the North American charging standard

tesla.com

31–40 of 192 posts

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#31
post #8

Quoted post unavailable.

This seems like a bad faith argument. It is more like here is a better design that's more compact and has more adoption, we're making it open standard for anyone to adopt.

Yeah, with the standard open, if we also assume Tesla opens the supercharger network it’s kind of hard to see a great argument for CCS. Better plug, more users, more chargers.

I’m biased, but I’ve also used all three plugs (CCS, J1772, NACS). NACS is the USB-C to the other two’s DVI.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#32
post #23

Hilarious to call their thing the "North American Charging Standard" when every other manufacturer in North America has already standardized on something else.

Try plugging a Nissan Leaf into a CCS charger.

Nissan for a long time has stuck to the Japanese standard (CHAdeMO) for their NA cars; some early EVs in America used CHAdeMO as well I think, but afaik only Nissan has stuck with it here.

I think even they've dropped it for future stuff tho.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#33
Awesome. This should be a world-wide standard. NACS (Tesla) VS CCS is like USB-A 1.0 vs USB-C with Power Delivery: CCS is unbelievably slow and clunky to the point where it might turn people off wanting an EV once they experience the slow and clunkiness.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#34
post #27

What legal guarantee is there that Tesla won't reverse course in the future? Say a charging station or car manufacturer adopts this connector and then in 5 years Tesla says "well actually, we've got these patents and we're going to start charging you to sell cars/charging stations"? Publishing the specs and saying "we won't enforce patents" isn't a legally binding guarantee

Google “promissory estoppel”

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#35
I wish they had gotten more serious about this sooner. They had talked about offering the plug and network to other manufacturers before but there wasn't any movement on it. I expect that now it's too late and we'll be stuck with terrible CCS forever, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#36
post #27

What legal guarantee is there that Tesla won't reverse course in the future? Say a charging station or car manufacturer adopts this connector and then in 5 years Tesla says "well actually, we've got these patents and we're going to start charging you to sell cars/charging stations"? Publishing the specs and saying "we won't enforce patents" isn't a legally binding guarantee

I'm not a lawyer but that sure sounds like it would be a case of promissory estoppel to me. That is, if someone relies on Tesla's word and makes investments based on it they'd have a legal case to prevent Tesla from trying to exercise those patents against them. But I do hope there's an actual legal grant of rights as well.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#37
post #33

Awesome. This should be a world-wide standard. NACS (Tesla) VS CCS is like USB-A 1.0 vs USB-C with Power Delivery: CCS is unbelievably slow and clunky to the point where it might turn people off wanting an EV once they experience the slow and clunkiness.

Tesla’s connector has zero marketshare in Europe and doesn’t support 3-phase AC charging.

I don’t think there is that much benefit in a global standard given that adapters exist.

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#38

I don't see anything new here (other than the name). For those who don't know there are two charging connecters used for new electric cars in the US: Tesla (now called NACS and only used on Teslas) and CCS (used by everyone else). There's nothing here to indicate that that's changing and it feels like a move by Tesla to try turning around the momentum in a format war they're losing, even if they have a wider installe…

There’s an actual set of specification documents available to download. That’s an improvement. Previously the only public info was their patent filings. It also sounds like they are offering specific parts (inlets and connector cables) for sale since they are providing datasheets on them.

Interesting thanks! I thought the specs were already published. Didn't they say they were going to do that a few years ago or am I misremembering something?

Re: Opening the North American charging standard

#40
post #24
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything here indicating that other manufacturers will start using the Tesla connector. Unfortunately we're already well into the format war with two standards: Tesla and Everyone Else (CCS). Honestly this feels more like a desperate attempt by Tesla to push back on the trend towards CCS instead of a substantive announcement

They might be trying to get ahead of a possible push to mandate CCS, and they don't want to get pushed around like Apple did. I for one am fine with it. The "NACS" is objectively better by almost every available measure, and if the despised Elon Musk wants to give his stuff away, hey I'll take it. Any good reasons why we should reject this proposal?

>They might be trying to get ahead of a possible push to mandate CCS, and they don't want to get pushed around like Apple did.

Waaaaaay too late for that. It'd be like Apple telling that they'll open the Lightning connector and that other phone manufacturers should switch to it, if Apple had done that in like 2019.

Sure, nice try, but maybe you should've taken this position about a decade earlier.

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