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The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

shipwreckmuseum.com

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Re: The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

#31

Post by jihadjihad »

If you haven't visited the Great Lakes, it can be hard to fathom how vast they are. They are really more like inland seas than lakes. At its deepest point, Lake Superior is about 1300ft deep, and edge-to-edge it measures about 350 miles across. If Lake Superior were drained, it could cover the entirety of North and South America with a foot of freshwater.

The northwestern coast of Michigan and the Upper Peninsula that bounds Lake Superior is absolutely worth a trip if you haven't been there.

Re: The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

#32

Post by PopAlongKid »

AlexandrB wrote: post #3

Obligatory link to the Gordon Lightfoot song about this disaster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuzTkGyxkYI

I'm not sure if this is a sea shanty, but it reminds me of "Blow the Man Down"[0] which is one.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blow_the_Man_Down

Re: The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

#33

Post by EvanAnderson »

jihadjihad wrote: post #31

If you haven't visited the Great Lakes, it can be hard to fathom how vast they are. They are really more like inland seas than lakes. At its deepest point, Lake Superior is about 1300ft deep, and edge-to-edge it measures about 350 miles across. If Lake Superior were drained, it could cover the entirety of North and South America with a foot of freshwater. The northwestern coast of Michigan and the Upper Peninsula tha…

If you’re able to time a visit to the locks in Sault Ste., MI for the last Friday in June you can take a tour that allows you to walk out onto the locks and get up close with the freighters. There are usually some other special tours around town for this “Engineer’s Day” event.

Our visit one year happened to fall on that day and it was an unexpected treat.

Re: The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

#35

Post by JshWright »

cbsmith wrote: post #6
AlexandrB wrote: post #3

Obligatory link to the Gordon Lightfoot song about this disaster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuzTkGyxkYI

Obligatory link to the Paul Gross song, 32 Down on the Robert Mackenzie, which was composed after the show (Due South) was planning to do a story (featuring the song) about the Edmund Fitzgerald, but was convinced by the families of the deceased that it was better to craft something fictional: https://youtu.be/_d-t0959C3A

Oh wow... I haven't seen (or really even thought about) that show in ~25 years. That was one of my favorite shows in my early teens. I wonder how well it would hold up these days. I remember it being super campy (in a fun way).

Re: The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

#36

Post by mauvehaus »

Aloha wrote: post #20
sutoor wrote: post #16

Interestingly, the SS Arthur M. Anderson which was 10mi behind the Fitz when it went down, is still in use 70 years since launch and currently in Lake Huron. https://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/details/ships/mmsi:3669720...

Lakers seem to have unusually long lives for ships because of the unique nature of the cargo carried, and the lack of salt water. As far as I can tell, many are retired because metal fatigue reasons, or an ship that cannot be upgraded to diesel propulsion.

What will put them out of service in fairly short order is salt exposure from carrying salt.

Cargill has a big salt mine in Cleveland that extends several miles under Lake Erie[0]. I don't know where else they're mining it, but it gets shipped in lakers, and it's pretty rough on them for obvious reasons.

I toured the Mather[1] some years back (take the below decks and engineering tour if they're offering it), and the guide made a point that the fact that the Mather hadn't carried salt was a big factor in how well-preserved she is. Carrying salt is apparently the last stop before the ship breakers for a lot of lake steamers.

[0] http://www.rockthelake.com/buzz/2017/12/cargill-salt-mine-cl...

[1] https://greatscience.com/explore/exhibits/william-g-mather-s...

Re: The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

#37

Post by h00k »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #33
jihadjihad wrote: post #31

If you haven't visited the Great Lakes, it can be hard to fathom how vast they are. They are really more like inland seas than lakes. At its deepest point, Lake Superior is about 1300ft deep, and edge-to-edge it measures about 350 miles across. If Lake Superior were drained, it could cover the entirety of North and South America with a foot of freshwater. The northwestern coast of Michigan and the Upper Peninsula tha…

If you’re able to time a visit to the locks in Sault Ste., MI for the last Friday in June you can take a tour that allows you to walk out onto the locks and get up close with the freighters. There are usually some other special tours around town for this “Engineer’s Day” event. Our visit one year happened to fall on that day and it was an unexpected treat.

I went through them for the first time last year, without ever having seen them. I think I'd be equally excited either way. Working, I didn't get to appreciate them from the other angle, I assume equally as neat.

Re: The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

#38

Post by [deleted] »

bombcar wrote: post #10

Things I didn't know even though this is one of my favorite songs: 1. The person the ship was named after died 27 years after the ship named after him did (he hadn't wanted the naming, the board overruled him). 2. The wreck is in Canada. 3. Gordon changed the lyrics of his live performances to take in new information not available at the time of writing.

[deleted]

Re: The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

#39

Post by zoklet-enjoyer »

mauvehaus wrote: post #36
Aloha wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lakers seem to have unusually long lives for ships because of the unique nature of the cargo carried, and the lack of salt water. As far as I can tell, many are retired because metal fatigue reasons, or an ship that cannot be upgraded to diesel propulsion.

What will put them out of service in fairly short order is salt exposure from carrying salt. Cargill has a big salt mine in Cleveland that extends several miles under Lake Erie[0]. I don't know where else they're mining it, but it gets shipped in lakers, and it's pretty rough on them for obvious reasons. I toured the Mather[1] some years back (take the below decks and engineering tour if they're offering it), and the…

Fun fact: I went to school with the CEO of Cargill's kid. Huge douchebag

Edit: Just looked it up and he hasn't been CEO since 2013

Re: The fateful, final journey of the Edmund Fitzgerald

#40

Post by Kon-Peki »

Jun8 wrote: post #13

Great Lakes have claimed so many ships, deadliest being the Lady Elgin with a loss of approximately 300 lives ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Lady_Elgin ). The huge waves that brought down Edmund Fitzgerald are thought to be caused by the mythical Gales of November phenomenon on Lake Superior ( https://www.mprnews.org/story/2022/11/10/lake-superiors-gale... ), which is due to cold Arctic air from north colliding w…

> deadliest being the Lady Elgin with a loss of approximately 300 lives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_Lady_Elgin).

The wikipedia page isn't quite clear on the matter:

> Professor Mason and Lieutenant Bartlett asserted that a principal cause of the collision was the lack of a $15 lantern on the Augusta

> The judgement was based on a law that not only gave sail the right of way over steam, but did not require sailing vessels to carry running lights.

It didn't matter that the Augusta was a sailing ship, it still had the right of way over the Lady Elgin, and it was the duty of the Lady Elgin to alter course to avoid the collision. But because the Augusta was a sailing ship it didn't need adequate lighting, so the Lady Elgin didn't see it until it was too late.

By the way, the law [1] right now still gives sailing vessels right of way over motor vessels. The location of the wreck, just offshore from Chicago, 700+ miles from the nearest ocean, is subject to the international treaty governing the avoidance of collisions at sea.

[1] https://www.imo.org/en/About/Conventions/Pages/COLREG.aspx

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