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New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

bbc.co.uk

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Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#31

Post by thomasgerbe »

nknight wrote: post #29
Aloisius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having grown up in Silicon Valley, I can honestly say that what people consider to be Silicon Valley today was not anything close to what it was 20 years ago. So I don't take it so seriously anymore. Since San Jose went from the gateway to Silicon Valley to the Heart of Silicon Valley, I feel like San Francisco, which is actually part of the Peninsula, can be part of SV.

I've only been here six years, and truth be told I avoid SF at all costs, but all I have to do is look at the job listings. SF listings are full of every Social Web Media Infinity-point-Fad known to man. South Bay -- Platforms, infrastructure, embedded systems, established technologies, emphasis on availability and reliability. This is what the San Francisco startups rely on to make sure their new web startup doesn't…

Well I think it has to do with how difficult it is to find affordable office real estate for businesses that outgrow their space. I can't imagine a company as big as Google or Facebook having their HQ in SF without having to build a giant skyscraper in the Financial District.

Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#32

Post by usaar333 »

nknight wrote: post #29
Aloisius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having grown up in Silicon Valley, I can honestly say that what people consider to be Silicon Valley today was not anything close to what it was 20 years ago. So I don't take it so seriously anymore. Since San Jose went from the gateway to Silicon Valley to the Heart of Silicon Valley, I feel like San Francisco, which is actually part of the Peninsula, can be part of SV.

I've only been here six years, and truth be told I avoid SF at all costs, but all I have to do is look at the job listings. SF listings are full of every Social Web Media Infinity-point-Fad known to man. South Bay -- Platforms, infrastructure, embedded systems, established technologies, emphasis on availability and reliability. This is what the San Francisco startups rely on to make sure their new web startup doesn't…

I agree there is this trend (the hip Social Media whatever startups are loss prominent in SF), but you do see some lower-level silicon valley startups in SF. Salesforce, Riverbed Technology, BitTorrent, Heroku, Dropbox, Square - just to name a few known ones. Admittedly there is few electronics stuff here (outside of biotech).

That said the Bay Area definitely has an OSI model going, with the lowest levels in the SE extreme (santa clara, san jose), higher levels NW (Mt View, Palo Alto), and software applications all the way to SF.

Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#33

Post by alexwolfe »

nknight wrote: post #18
Aloisius wrote: post #14

If this is a fight, I'm pretty sure only one side is fighting it. I don't remember the last time I had a conversation about NY startups or NY vs SF with anyone who wasn't from NY. I find all the coverage of NY vs. SF rather strange. For the most part, we don't really compete for the same money or for the same talent. Quite often we don't even compete for the same users.

I'm particularly annoyed with the synonymization of "San Francisco" and "Silicon Valley". They are not the same thing.

I think its important to keep in mind this is very tech specific and generalization and doesn't refer to the life style or atmosphere of either being the same.

Many of the engineers/designers tend move around all over the bay area. Also, the investors are the same for a great portion of these companies as well.

It's just easier to refer to it as "The Valley", although it's technically not correct.

Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#34

Post by usaar333 »

nknight wrote: post #29
Aloisius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having grown up in Silicon Valley, I can honestly say that what people consider to be Silicon Valley today was not anything close to what it was 20 years ago. So I don't take it so seriously anymore. Since San Jose went from the gateway to Silicon Valley to the Heart of Silicon Valley, I feel like San Francisco, which is actually part of the Peninsula, can be part of SV.

I've only been here six years, and truth be told I avoid SF at all costs, but all I have to do is look at the job listings. SF listings are full of every Social Web Media Infinity-point-Fad known to man. South Bay -- Platforms, infrastructure, embedded systems, established technologies, emphasis on availability and reliability. This is what the San Francisco startups rely on to make sure their new web startup doesn't…

@thomas: Salesforce is actually bigger than Facebook by heads and HQ'd in a few skyscrapers in SF. (soon to move to a dedicated office complex in Mission Bay.)

Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#35

Post by skurry »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #25

As a New Yorker looking longingly westward, I have a question. Is the Valley the only place it makes sense to be, or is it feasible to live in the East Bay? I know the real answer is that it doesn't matter where you are if you're the right person working on the right project. That said, I want to be somewhere that the social environment is a positive one for someone living off his savings while trying to build a prod…

I just saw today that Oakland is in the top 5 of the most dangerous cities in the US. I know those Top Anything lists have to be taken with a grain of salt, but Oakland seems to be in the (local) news constantly, and it's mostly not good news. After having lived in the Bay Area for 4+ years, I've been to Oakland only once, and that was to help someone move out of Oakland. I think I'd rather move to San Jose if I wanted some city life, real estate prices there have come down a bit. Avoid the east side though.

Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#36

Post by [deleted] »

thomasgerbe wrote: post #19
davidhansen wrote: post #11

Meanwhile, those of us continuing to succeed in the "tech backwaters" of the US will be forever amused by the smug self-satisfaction coming out of the "cool" cities. This little spat being just one example.

Yep, there's nothing cool about either of these cities. It stinks here. The nightlife is poor, the people are stupid, the pay is low, the food terrible, and there is no culture. The amount of successful startups is overly exaggerated. There's maybe one. I think most are in Iowa or Austin. Rent is expensive so please no one come to NY or SF.

[deleted]

Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#37

Post by Domenic_S »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #25

As a New Yorker looking longingly westward, I have a question. Is the Valley the only place it makes sense to be, or is it feasible to live in the East Bay? I know the real answer is that it doesn't matter where you are if you're the right person working on the right project. That said, I want to be somewhere that the social environment is a positive one for someone living off his savings while trying to build a prod…

> The only thing is, I want to move west for a nicer home life and standard of living, I just don't want to leave city life altogether. That's why I'm thinking of living in Oakland or Berkeley, and working in SF.

A "nicer home"... in Oakland or Berkeley, that's the hills. Expect about $1MM or so: http://www.redfin.com/CA/Berkeley/938-Spruce-St-94707/home/1...

I hear you can get a fixer in Oakland's hills for around $500k though, an old coworker did that. You might consider going further east to Pleasant Hill or Concord -- PH if safety/schools are a concern (more $), Concord if you can deal with the hoodrats and older homes (less $). Both are fairly inexpensive in comparison to anything closer to the City, and both are on the BART line... ~45 min on the train to SF.

Don't count out south SF too, for example a pretty nice place in Daly City for $600k: http://www.redfin.com/CA/Daly-City/392-Bay-Ridge-Dr-94014/ho...

Personally I've found that commuting drains a lot of the get-er'-done energy from me. If I had the dough, I'd live closer to the City or the valley. YMMV. San Jose has lots of nice areas, but it's an urban wasteland... block after unending block of houses and strip malls in many areas. The nicer areas are $$$$$.

When I was working at a startup fresh out of college, I got a 400 sqft studio in the middle of the city, which was perfect. It was an ungodly $1k/month, but I walked nearly everywhere and spent all day coworking or at a cafe anywhere. If you're unattached, I'd highly recommend a setup like that, since proximity to the things you need (people like you, cafes, etc) is more important than living quarters. If you've got a family... well... I hope your savings account is large.

Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#38

Post by pyoung »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #25

As a New Yorker looking longingly westward, I have a question. Is the Valley the only place it makes sense to be, or is it feasible to live in the East Bay? I know the real answer is that it doesn't matter where you are if you're the right person working on the right project. That said, I want to be somewhere that the social environment is a positive one for someone living off his savings while trying to build a prod…

Housing in Oakland is probably the cheapest you can get, at least within the proper bay area. If you are trying to "leave the city life, while not leaving the city life", unless you are aiming for the Berkeley or Oakland hills, you will still find yourself in fairly urbanized environs.

If you don't mind the fog, think about SF's sunset district. It's cheap(er) and a little out of the way, but still within earshot of SF proper.

Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#39

Post by jcr »

davidhansen wrote: post #11

Meanwhile, those of us continuing to succeed in the "tech backwaters" of the US will be forever amused by the smug self-satisfaction coming out of the "cool" cities. This little spat being just one example.

You might want to give the following a read:

http://www.paulgraham.com/hubs.html

Re: New York vs San Francisco in fight for tech start-ups

#40

Post by koko775 »

jaysonelliot wrote: post #25

As a New Yorker looking longingly westward, I have a question. Is the Valley the only place it makes sense to be, or is it feasible to live in the East Bay? I know the real answer is that it doesn't matter where you are if you're the right person working on the right project. That said, I want to be somewhere that the social environment is a positive one for someone living off his savings while trying to build a prod…

I live in Berkeley and work in SF. To make this work you'll probably want to live near the BART and work somewhere on Market, or if you're OK with a little more transit time, in SoMa.

BART from Downtown Berkeley to Montgomery Street is 20 minutes in ideal conditions, but around 30 more typically due to waiting or a transfer at MacArthur. Expect to add to that 5-10 minutes for somewhere on Market and 10-15 minutes for somewhere in SoMa

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