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Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#31

Post by JohnJamesRambo »

kjeetgill wrote: post #26
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly our bodies can increase the refresh rate and processing of smaller slices of time when needed. I remember an experiment scientists did dropping people from a bungee with an led display that had a display rate too high or fast for normal humans to see it. During the drop they could see the number it was displaying. :)

Huh, I've heard about this study but recall them having the opposite conclusion. Edit: I think this is the study we're thinking of. http://psychologyrich.blogspot.com/2011/04/does-bungee-jump-... They couldn't see the flickering screen any better even though their subjective experience of the duration was longer.

I have to admit you may be right. I can’t find any other paper that contradicts this paper.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

I don’t know how I got the opposite idea from the show I was watching. They were doing the experiment and I swear they said the people could see the numbers better. Perhaps if I had been bungee jumping while watching the show…

Fascinatingly, it seems that it is the perception of time that increases and with it the recording of information.

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/129112147

ABUMRAD: In that instant, our memories go wide open.

Mr. EAGLEMAN: Because thats what memory is for. Its for when everything hits the fan. You want to write it down and remember it.

ABUMRAD: So all of it goes right to your hard drive - the clouds, the feeling of the air. Oh look, theres a guy in a blue shirt.

Mr. EAGLEMAN: So when you read that back out, the experience feels like it must have taken a very long time.

KRULWICH: Hmmm.

Mr. EAGLEMAN: It must have.

KRULWICH: Normally, the trivial stuff gets dumped but in this situation, it gets written.

ABUMRAD: And then you realize how much trivial stuff is in there.

Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#32

Post by yourapostasy »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #12

Not exactly impressive, nature is famous for calling it quits once something works well enough. Anyone who wants to can create a non-biological neuron/axion connection that runs orders of magnitude faster. The real question is "but does it actually do something" because that's where nature shines pretty well.

> ...nature is famous for calling it quits once something works well enough...

Great, so we're just bags of meat sashaying around with loads of technical debt baggage via the slapdash coding delivered by nature in a multi-billion year project. The ongoing result of always picking good and cheap over fast.

Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#33

Post by incrudible »

yarg wrote: post #20

What're the thermal dissipation requirements? How densly is it possible to structure them and still provide adequate cooling?

The cooling problem is not thermal dissipation, but rather getting to superconductivity, which generally requires temperatures near absolute zero.

Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#34

Post by TeacherTortoise »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #12

Not exactly impressive, nature is famous for calling it quits once something works well enough. Anyone who wants to can create a non-biological neuron/axion connection that runs orders of magnitude faster. The real question is "but does it actually do something" because that's where nature shines pretty well.

> nature is famous for calling it quits

Yes, evolution builds upon what went before rather than starting fresh, but nature never calls it quits. It's a process, not a thinking entity. In any stable population there will be variances that have neither a benefit or cost until environmental pressures force it to "select" the most appropriate. You have to look at a longer timescale to see the adaptations take hold.

You could say species dying out is calling it quits in a way, but evolution encompasses everything not just the extinct - but I don't think that's what you meant.

Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#35

Post by dschuetz »

I'm not sure whatever for they need such nanowire synapses, because in real/wet neural networks the timings of neural firing, delay and latency is as essential as the synapse itself. How fast a wet synapse works is modulated, some are isolated from modulation. I don't think a new synthetic synapse being 30.000x faster will do anything good if the whole system is not up to par with a wet neural system.

Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#36

Post by IIAOPSW »

POiNTx wrote: post #16

I know these don't map 1-to-1 on real natural synapses, but let's say you can magically replace all your natural synapses in a brain with this. What would be the experienced effect? Would you be able to think faster, or would perceived time slow down? Or something else?

Here's a partial answer. The perception of time always happens at one second per second.

Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#37

Post by IIAOPSW »

netsharc wrote: post #19
POiNTx wrote: post #16

I know these don't map 1-to-1 on real natural synapses, but let's say you can magically replace all your natural synapses in a brain with this. What would be the experienced effect? Would you be able to think faster, or would perceived time slow down? Or something else?

I wonder if a human's "refresh rate" has been evolutionary optimized for its environment. Maybe there's no need to evaluate things 30000x faster if our bodies can't react that fast. I guess it would make for faster reaction times, e.g. when driving: driver in front of you hits the brakes, the vision signal enters your brain with the same delay (are optic nerves synapses too?), but I guess the difference is your brain…

Wow. This is exactly like a speculative comment I was going to write. Only thing I'll add is the relation seems to hold for other animals. The bigger the animal, the longer the wavelengths in both vocalizations and (to the limited extent we can study), brain waves. Think about the reaction times of a whale vs the reaction times of a small bird. I bet videos of whales speed up kind of look like videos of birds.

Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#38

Post by IIAOPSW »

thrown_22 wrote: post #28
visarga wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers calculate billions of times faster than the brain, what's your point?

That computers aren't brains.

A brain can certainly memorize and follow a fixed set of rules to update the tape on a Turing machine. Therefore the brain is at least a Universal Computer. Furthermore there is nothing in the domain of sensory-motor tasks that is in principle beyond computer controlled robotics. So then praytell, what can a brain do that a computer can't?

Careful. The current answers to that question live on a small island that's been eroding at an alarming pace. Some project that the island will be totally washed away in our lifetime. You sure you want to build there?

Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#39

Post by thrown_22 »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #38
thrown_22 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That computers aren't brains.

A brain can certainly memorize and follow a fixed set of rules to update the tape on a Turing machine. Therefore the brain is at least a Universal Computer. Furthermore there is nothing in the domain of sensory-motor tasks that is in principle beyond computer controlled robotics. So then praytell, what can a brain do that a computer can't? Careful. The current answers to that question live on a small island that's be…

>Careful. The current answers to that question live on a small island that's been eroding at an alarming pace. Some project that the island will be totally washed away in our lifetime. You sure you want to build there?

Yeah.

Re: Nanowire synapses 30,000x faster than nature’s

#40

Post by Avicebron »

Blammar wrote: post #24
insanitybit wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I thought 30,000x faster I would kill myself. It's sort of like that "Flash nightmare" where he goes so fast he's waiting an eternity for someone just to breath a syllable. Imagine being able to process information 30kx faster but still be limited to communication methods through senses that are radically more limited? That is hell, that is "The Jaunt".

You mean, you'd kill yourself 30,000x faster 8-). If it matters to communicate outside, sure. But if you're inside a synthworld with everyone at the same timebase, it's not a problem. Essentially, you're evolving 30,000x faster, so with enough minds in the synthworld, interesting things will happen...

I feel like if you adjust the world to equalize, you've just moved your reference point and therefore relative to yourself and everything around you you're still at base 1:1. So normal as here and now.
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