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Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

ourworldindata.org

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Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#31
post #13

Lets take in mind that there is a problem to compare two groups when one group is much easier to measure than the other. The error interval in the mammal biomass should be much higher. The actual real values are probably not so extreme. ... I see, is just megafauna. The most competitive groups (rodents and bats) are deliberately excluded. The title is incorrect then.

Certainly the article might not be credible, but can you cite the relevant text from the article, so that the rest of us can quickly verify your claim? I'm not seeing where in the article this is stated.

whales, dolphins and seals are also excluded.

> "biomass from marine mammals – mainly whales – is not included"

They discuss specifically about megafauna and large terrestrial mammals in most paragraphs and figures.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#33

You have any prepper ideas about surviving an apocalypse and living off the land, forget about meat. It'll be crickets or some such. All the wild meat in the world will be gone in like 4 days due to massive over-hunting.

If you ever look in old barns that have been there before the Great Depression (few but there are some) you will see rat traps with holes drilled in them. They were used to hang on trees to trap squirrels. Apparently this worked well the first year...not so good for the decade after that.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#34

You have any prepper ideas about surviving an apocalypse and living off the land, forget about meat. It'll be crickets or some such. All the wild meat in the world will be gone in like 4 days due to massive over-hunting.

In an actual apocalypse, you'll find that people are made of meat.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#35
post #25

Going off on a tangent, but the scale of production is very hard to grasp. I'm probably not the first person to observe this, but I once did some napkin math about steel production, and what I realized kind of blew me away. About 1.9 billion tonnes in 2020. Like with billions of dollars, I have no intuition for such numbers. Context is needed. Global steel production just before WW I was about 70 million tonnes. So p…

Is your number all New Metal (not to be confused with the equally important to the world's economy Nu Metal production) or is part of the 1.9 billion recycled/reclaimed? It appears this number includes 450-500 million tons of reclaimed steel?

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#36
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the matrix. Agent smith said it so well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgS1Lwr8gq8

Or perhaps Agent Smith mistook an S-curve that hasn't started to level off yet for unfettered exponential growth. > Generally, developed nations have seen a decline in their growth rates in recent decades ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth#Population_g... ) Or perhaps he was just evil and had a hatred of humanity that he was justifying with whatever reason pleased him.

But has their resource consumption per capita leveled off?

Population numbers aren't the scary thing about our CURRENT population.

What's scary is that China and India, which is almost 3 billion people, want US-levels of resource consumption, and they are full steam ahead in doing so.

Oh, so the curve will tail off around 11 or 15 billion? Who cares. Each billion is 3x the population of the US, and they all want our standard of living, or BETTER.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#37

Devastatingly sad. Are plant-based meat replacements and lab-grown meat going to help fix this?

One day, whilst eating a burger in a pub and thinking about the food chain, I ran a thought experiment in my head. I imagined being hungry and someone offering me a choice between a ham sandwich or a vegan sandwich. I could only select the ham sandwich if I was willing to shoot a pig in the head. I wouldn’t have to butcher the pig or anything else, just be responsible for its death. I decided that I would choose the vegan sandwich. This lead me to believe that by continuing to eat meat I was shirking responsibility and passing the pain of killing an animal on to someone else so I decided to go vegan. The environmental benefits were secondary and I was under no illusions as regards to health; I believed (and still do) that it is worse for you than both vegetarian and meat containing diets.

It was around 2016-2017 and I lived in a small town in northern England. Veganism was only just starting to make it into the mainstream; there weren’t any vegan options at any of the fast food places and there was about one freezer worth of vegan alternatives if you went to a large supermarket. I found transitioning over to a meat free diet surprisingly easy. The hardest thing about it wasn’t cravings for foods you couldn’t eat like you might expect. The hardest thing was the social aspect of it.

I slowly found myself being pushed out of social circles. People knew you were vegan so there was no going for a burger or a KFC or any other bonding activities over food. People would cook Linda McCartney sausages if you brought them round to a BBQ but you could tell they didn’t appreciate the extra fuss.

I tried really hard not to be the loud, shouty, fussy vegan but as soon as anyone found out the questions would start. People were curious about why I was vegan and I would tell them. The vast majority of people admitted to feeling bad about eating animals. They didn’t want to think about where their food was coming from and I was a living symbol in front of them that they could stop doing that if they really wanted to. Eating was celebration after hard work and, just with my presence, I was ruining that for them.

At the time I was heavily into fitness and I noticed that achieving my protein intake was really difficult. It would require having 3 to 4 protein shakes a day or doing lots of cooking and prep. All the natural vegan protein sources outside of protein shakes weren’t lean; they also contained lots of carbs or fats. This made hitting macros hard. Food became a chore and I didn’t feel particularly healthy. If anything I felt my health declining.

I went for a walk one day and ran the thought experiment again. I decided that yes, this time I would take responsibility and kill the pig. And that was that. At the end of my walk I went into a Subway, ordered a meatball sub and went home to eat it. I expected to have gastrointestinal distress having not eaten meat for so long but there was nothing. My body went right back to processing it as if I’d never stopped.

The one thing that this whole experience taught me is that food is tied deeply into culture and bonding. I very strongly believe that plant based sources are not going to be the solution to this problem. There is just too much social resistance to overcome.

From my experience, the only way of solving this problem is petri dish meat. Not plant based, but actual meat tissue, grown in factories. Why? People will still get the joy of eating meat and maintain their traditions without the guilt. It also has the potential to actually be better and cheaper than regular meat. If scientists can perfect the processes, they can make it taste like prime beef every time but with a fraction of the economic and environmental costs. It can be sold as an upgrade not a downgrade which is what people see veganism as.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#38
post #25

Going off on a tangent, but the scale of production is very hard to grasp. I'm probably not the first person to observe this, but I once did some napkin math about steel production, and what I realized kind of blew me away. About 1.9 billion tonnes in 2020. Like with billions of dollars, I have no intuition for such numbers. Context is needed. Global steel production just before WW I was about 70 million tonnes. So p…

Is your number all New Metal (not to be confused with the equally important to the world's economy Nu Metal production) or is part of the 1.9 billion recycled/reclaimed? It appears this number includes 450-500 million tons of reclaimed steel?

In my opinion there hasn’t been enough nu metal production since early 00s, I think we should manufacture more black bowling shirts with flames on them to incentivise uptake.

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#39
post #25

Going off on a tangent, but the scale of production is very hard to grasp. I'm probably not the first person to observe this, but I once did some napkin math about steel production, and what I realized kind of blew me away. About 1.9 billion tonnes in 2020. Like with billions of dollars, I have no intuition for such numbers. Context is needed. Global steel production just before WW I was about 70 million tonnes. So p…

"Every single tonne of steel manufactured by humans from prehistory until about a century ago -- the entire output of the industrial revolution -- amounts to less than one year at current production."

The real questions are:

Does that include recycling?

If not, how do we see this being sustainable?

Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans

#40
post #39
post #25

Going off on a tangent, but the scale of production is very hard to grasp. I'm probably not the first person to observe this, but I once did some napkin math about steel production, and what I realized kind of blew me away. About 1.9 billion tonnes in 2020. Like with billions of dollars, I have no intuition for such numbers. Context is needed. Global steel production just before WW I was about 70 million tonnes. So p…

"Every single tonne of steel manufactured by humans from prehistory until about a century ago -- the entire output of the industrial revolution -- amounts to less than one year at current production." The real questions are: Does that include recycling? If not, how do we see this being sustainable?

Two reasons:

  the earth is made of iron, for all intents and purposes

  asteroids are often made of iron
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