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Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

t.me

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Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#31

Post by chrisoverzero »

adventured wrote: post #14
insanitybit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see that argument a lot. I'm glad their ISP dropped them. "Censorship" is a bit of a silly word to me at this point. Is it censorship when your email provider removes spam? When your antivirus removes malware? I mean, spam is speech, malware is code and code is speech. So it is censorship. We just all agree it's a good thing. This is a good thing. edit: Since this keeps coming up, it's not just spam emails/…

Spam is not speech. You haven't found a gotcha in the argument. Spam is a form of harrassment. If it's an attack, harrassment, violence, an initiation of force, etc. then it isn't speech. Which is why yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater is also not speech (despite people also thinking that's another gotcha example to free speech), it's an act of violence or attempted violence. Free speech doesn't exist in the contex…

> Which is why yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater is also not speech (despite people also thinking that's another gotcha example to free speech)

Next, you’ll be telling us that it’s OK for the government to arrest socialists for passing out anti-war flyers.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#33

Post by anaisbetts »

ultra_nick wrote: post #11

What is Kiwifarms?

It is a KKK-level hate site against LGBT people and particularly trans women, that actively seeks to terrorize them by doxxing them and their family members. Several suicides have been attributed directly to their actions, as well as the Christchurch massacre.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#34

Post by insanitybit »

adventured wrote: post #14
insanitybit wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see that argument a lot. I'm glad their ISP dropped them. "Censorship" is a bit of a silly word to me at this point. Is it censorship when your email provider removes spam? When your antivirus removes malware? I mean, spam is speech, malware is code and code is speech. So it is censorship. We just all agree it's a good thing. This is a good thing. edit: Since this keeps coming up, it's not just spam emails/…

Spam is not speech. You haven't found a gotcha in the argument. Spam is a form of harrassment. If it's an attack, harrassment, violence, an initiation of force, etc. then it isn't speech. Which is why yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater is also not speech (despite people also thinking that's another gotcha example to free speech), it's an act of violence or attempted violence. Free speech doesn't exist in the contex…

I think you're confusing speech with protected speech. Those are all examples of speech, they are just not protected.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#35

Post by sascha_sl »

josephcsible wrote: post #27
sascha_sl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think legal processes can be flawed?

Yes, but when they are, we should just fix them, rather than resorting to vigilantism.

One could argue that a great many things have been left up for corporations to decide, especially in the US. That is by design.

I would of course also love to see this addressed in legislature, but that seems unlikely given the current political climate.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#36

Post by FeepingCreature »

sascha_sl wrote: post #10
josephcsible wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Censorship is different from email spam filters and antivirus software because the recipient can choose to bypass the latter for individual emails or files if they want to. And that ability is important, since both have false positives a lot.

Can the targets of Kiwifarms opt-out from being harassed as a result of being listed alongside their address on the site?

Two wrongs don't make a right. If Kiwifarms is acting illegally, sue them in court. If there are no laws, lobby to make them.

ISPs are not police, elected representatives or courts; they shouldn't be allowed to usurp that role.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#37

Post by dmamills »

Yet another chapter in these pathetic cry-bullies' lives. What a waste of your life to be so dedicated to "defending" a forum to meticulously document and mock the existence of people that they find distasteful.

To pretend this is a crusade for free speech is laughable.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#38

Post by boppo1 »

d_e_solomon wrote: post #24
orangepurple wrote: post #15

Snapshot of the main page: https://archive.ph/aIUSE Excerpt from the top: Zayo, our ISP, has suddenly discontinued service. This is because Blake Willis, a 20 year senior network engineer in the company's Paris HQ, is friends with Liz Fong-Jones - a former Google employee associated with Trans LifeLine charity directors who were removed for inurement, and recently accused of sexual assault. I have appealed this decis…

Suddenly everyone who attacks Moon supposedly committed sexual assault and is a groomer or some other slanderous attack. Moon should put up or shut up.

Moon? Please loop me in. There is precedent for censorious tech conglomerates (reddit, at least) to defend people who are sex offenders.

I'm no fan of Kiwifarms, but I'm also no fan of the DIY HRT guide Keffals runs that advises (often underage) people on doing home-chemistry to make hormones.

Would be nice if the right could stop slandering every trans person as a mentally ill groomer and the left could stop labeling anyone questioning the ethics of underage transition as nazis long enough to have a reasonable discussion about the topic.

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#39

Post by lbruno »

i'm enjoying the right-leaning comments here -- it's not censorship, it's being censured

which highlights a point i like to make: if you wish to defend KF, first you have to justify the concrete speech being carried out on it

with examples

which you can't post here because it goes against the rules of this place -- which should be a pretty big hint as to why the fruit site got censured

Re: Kiwifarms Dropped by Their ISP

#40

Post by d_e_solomon »

bigshell wrote: post #26
d_e_solomon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kiwifarms has gone way past free speech and onto active harassment. To fly this one as a free speech issue is disingenuous. To act like censorship is the issue here is pretty ripe.

What is harassment? Is it talking about people on a website? People say that stating someone's address, phone number, email, is a form of doxing and therefore harassment. But, these things are just statements of fact. To say that the statement and sharing of factual information obtained legally is not a free speech issue is completely disingenous, 12 years ago when WikiLeaks was leaking information which had been giv…

We keep seeing actions from Kiwifarms that include doxing, swatting,and cyber bullying that lead to the suicide and death of people.

If you're saying that swatting is free speech, then we've pushed the idea of speech beyond all reasonable boundaries and have decided that speech just means that people are free from consequences of their actions.

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