DevOps is bullshit in the same way that Agile is bullshit. So, it's actually not at all, but just has become so fashionable that the term is sufficiently abused to become almost useless.
DevOps is broken
31–40 of 363 posts
Re: DevOps is broken
#32OP that newsletter button on my mobile browser is covering up words in the article. What the fuck.
Re: DevOps is broken
#33One thing I miss:
Most developers have no fucking clue how Linux, networking, storage or whatever works under the hood. They know how to develop whatever stack you're at, but stuff like latency, packet loss, redundancy factors, backup policies, monitoring or other classic ops topics are completely beyond the comprehension of 99% of developers.
"DevOps" usually means some C-level execs say "fire the expensive neckbeards that have the time to properly understand a system" followed by them saying one of
- "oh fuck, someone managed to compromise a service and because no one knows what the fuck firewalls are / Kubernetes doesn't come with ones OOTB the hacker got complete control of everything"
- "oh fuck, production is down because someone fat-fingered in Elastic Beanstalk which recreated the environment, dropped the RDS database and there were no backups" (I've been personally bitten in the arse by their definition of "recreate" - all I wanted it to do was to replace the damn EC2 instance)
- "oh fuck, we're seeing insane AWS bills because someone DDoS'd us and no one created a cost limit or a sensible limit for autoscale or a simple dumb monitor that alerts someone"
- "oh fuck, we're seeing an insane AWS bill because someone got his AWS access credentials stolen and some shithead spun up a ton of g3.xlarge instances to mine shitcoins"
Other C-level execs see constant issues between "ops and dev teams" because their team leads are friends of the silo model and decide that instead of getting rid of the dumbass managers they're getting rid of the ops team because "cloud", with the exact same result.
Re: DevOps is broken
#34I have bewilderingly tried to discern why software development continues to grow more and more complex.
It wasn’t always like this. There was a time when we talked about languages and OSes and libraries as if they made a difference on how much you could get done with as little people and cognitive load as possible (the claims were very much overrated, but the point was we acted like it mattered).
And then it started ballooning. It seems to me that much of that coincides with a lot of new money being dumped into the economy, and software moving past the necessary-evil-so-how-do-I-drive-down-my-costs and on to the gold rush of you must have a web app for your service that rivals a video game in complexity and visual finesse. It seems to me that as long as their is so much free money sloshing around venture capital funding, that it was inevitable that the process of making software would complexify to soak up the extra cash. After all, you can only add so many levels and varieties of managers to add value. After that comes the variegation in roles of software development.
That’s my working theory anyway.
Re: DevOps is broken
#35I have a hard time trusting someone who calls something "production-grade."
I too have a hard time trusting people who use words
Re: DevOps is broken
#36Well, to be fair, most of the engineering is bullshit.
Re: DevOps is broken
#37TL;DR; s/DevOps/Platform/
Re: DevOps is broken
#38> The problem is most engineers don’t want to do operations work. There's your problem. You have people who build stuff without caring where and how it runs. Recipe for disaster.
It is more nuanced. I care, but my skillset demands I spend more time on the Development side, so Operations must take the backseat in my mind because of this incentive structure. Asking one person to do two (actually three) job functions is a scam. Most developers have to do Frontend, Backend, and Ops. These have wildly different mindsets and feedback loops and not enough time exists. Don't hate the player, hate the…
I think the argument is that calling ops different is like saying error handling is another department. To be a complete dev you must understand the code in situ regardless of your specialty.
Re: DevOps is broken
#39> The problem is most engineers don’t want to do operations work. There's your problem. You have people who build stuff without caring where and how it runs. Recipe for disaster.
I don't understand. I want to develop code. I don't want to become an AWS/S3/Github/Jenkins/Action/terraform/etc expert. I know enough of this to be dangerous but not at a level that passes as professional. Yet I am regularly tasked with maintaining the full deployment of code. There's a reason to have a team of people doing this "DevOps" work. Just like we have a team of people who do SRE. It creates a standard and…
No post body was provided.
Re: DevOps is broken
#40> The problem is most engineers don’t want to do operations work. There's your problem. You have people who build stuff without caring where and how it runs. Recipe for disaster.
I don't understand. I want to develop code. I don't want to become an AWS/S3/Github/Jenkins/Action/terraform/etc expert. I know enough of this to be dangerous but not at a level that passes as professional. Yet I am regularly tasked with maintaining the full deployment of code. There's a reason to have a team of people doing this "DevOps" work. Just like we have a team of people who do SRE. It creates a standard and…
It just doesn't work for the most part. Maybe as an Ops person, I just want to do Ops, I don't want to have to understand your code, but Lambda has specific limitations on how long code can run for. I can't allocate CPU and Memory resources in Kubernetes without a deep understanding of the application. S3 has limitations on how files can be distributed and accessed. Integrating with CI gets complicated quickly and requires understanding the code being integrated. A lot of the time building things in terraform I spend three times as much time getting the information out of a developer as they would doing it themselves. I mean yes, there's 60% or so of my job that involves working on lower level infrastructure that doesn't touch a dev, and we do need ops engineers for that, but the other 40%? It works both ways, a good "devops engineer" needs to understand code, but if we don't have a shared language we both just end up banging our heads against the wall.
If you're building a crud-app in a common framework with low volume, sure you can toss that over the wall.