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Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#31

Post by danwee »

> And finally, I feel no one else is realizing that they are happily hacking away at the amazingly well-paid branch they're sitting on. As soon as a company's IT department is practically fully remote, why should they page a German wage for someone who is a face on a screen, when they can pay a fraction for that same face broadcasted from a few hundred kilometers further east or south? German is hardly used in business context here anyway and lower-wage countries within ±3 hours timezones abound.

So, it's because of people like you that we cannot have nice things. You see, a decent company will pay the same salary regardless of location. The only thing that matters: skills.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#32

Post by benjaminwootton »

You are not alone. The move to almost full WFH has decimated my enjoyment of the industry. I just cannot get motivated in a job or even my own business based around Zoom and Slack.

I am sure that the bad economy will drive more back to office, but then we will have to contend with all that a bed economy entails.

I am taking this period as a sabbatical from the industry, but hope it will come back with a better balance when the economy starts to turn upwards.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#33

Post by benjaminwootton »

danwee wrote: post #31

> And finally, I feel no one else is realizing that they are happily hacking away at the amazingly well-paid branch they're sitting on. As soon as a company's IT department is practically fully remote, why should they page a German wage for someone who is a face on a screen, when they can pay a fraction for that same face broadcasted from a few hundred kilometers further east or south? German is hardly used in busine…

What if you businesses can now find those same skills in a cheaper location?

I'm sure they exist, but it would be a rare business that chooses to pay San Francisco, London or even Berlin wages to someone with the same skills in a much cheaper location.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#34

Post by kdabir »

I am in the same boat as you. I like to work from the office as it feels lot more social and productive too. Brainstorming or white boarding is not the same for me when I am remote.

I have made so many good friends at work because we were meeting everyday. While I have made some good friends in remote setup too, I haven't met them outside work (working hours) ever.

However, there are people, who don't like interruptions, don't want to commute, don't want to get up early to get ready for work and I respect that. There are some valid reasons for some to work from home, it may be more productive and be able to get into the "flow" / "zone".

Future is remote, more transactional work relations and lonely. (I know, people would jump on me for saying this :)

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#35

Post by closewith »

riebnik wrote: post #22
closewith wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the case, why are dev salaries in, for example, Dublin so much higher than Berlin (€115,000 vs €86,000 if Levels.fyi is to be believed)? Both are EU capitals with excellent, well-educated workforces.

Because of the additional cost that the employer is imposed on by the state in Germany. I bet that the total cost per employee is pretty close.

> Because of the additional cost that the employer is imposed on by the state in Germany.

There are similar employer taxes (at somewhat lower rates, topping out at ~11% vs ~18%), but the total cost of employment in Dublin is much higher than Berlin.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#36

Post by hsn915 »

I think a lot of people that get into computers have something where they enjoy interacting with computers more than real people.

Granted, even on the internet I enjoy interacting with people, by reading and writing comments like this.

But real time conversations are not always enjoyable. They can be enjoyable in the right place and time, but the company office is often not that place or time.

Also you don't get to choose your office mates, and it's not uncommon to have some sort of overbearingly loud/chatty office mates who just enjoy torturing you with their stories even if you are not interested.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#37

Post by danwee »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #33
danwee wrote: post #31

> And finally, I feel no one else is realizing that they are happily hacking away at the amazingly well-paid branch they're sitting on. As soon as a company's IT department is practically fully remote, why should they page a German wage for someone who is a face on a screen, when they can pay a fraction for that same face broadcasted from a few hundred kilometers further east or south? German is hardly used in busine…

What if you businesses can now find those same skills in a cheaper location? I'm sure they exist, but it would be a rare business that chooses to pay San Francisco, London or even Berlin wages to someone with the same skills in a much cheaper location.

I said "decent" companies. We all know most of the companies out there are not "decent".

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#38

Post by shankr »

funfunfun2 wrote: post #11

> As soon as a company's IT department is practically fully remote, why should they page a German wage for someone who is a face on a screen, when they can pay a fraction for that same face broadcasted from a few hundred kilometers further east or south? German is hardly used in business context here anyway and lower-wage countries within ±3 hours timezones abound. Working from the office will not protect you from th…

Yeah I have told recruiters no way I am moving to places like Munich unless I am getting a big jump at least 15-20% over my current salary. Housing is such an expensive mess in big German cities.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#40

Post by benjaminwootton »

kstenerud wrote: post #2

There's nothing controversial. You like working in an office. Cool. Go work in an office. I don't like working in an office. Cool. I work from home. The only thing that's changed is that we have more choice now. Like when I finally landed the first job where I didn't have to wear a tie anymore.

The problem for us office advocates is that you travel into an empty office and sit on Zoom calls anyway.

Of course we shouldn't drag you into the office just to appease us, but the experience of working together is effectively not available right now.

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