I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property • Hacker News Board

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#31

Post by jxramos » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:46 AM UTC

bhhaskin wrote: post #15

socialismisok wrote: post #4

"I'd have to bring my electrical systems up to code and that's expensive for my 80 year old house" Well, yeah. I suppose it would be. I'm a bit surprised this is a surprise to the landlord. Also, many of the costs here are looming anyways. It's a matter of when, not if, the electrical needs updating to meet code.

That's not necessarily true. It sounds like most of the upgrades are about convenience to the power company. Not anything safety related, which is why older properties are exempt. You also have to remember that it takes a lot of power to be able to change an EV in timely manner. It is easily the number one consumer of energy. Older neighborhoods utilities where never designed to do that.

that is interesting to consider a neighborhood scale of infrastructure and the capabilities therein. How much copper is underground in various places, is fiber internet present or on the way, something to think about for sure.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#32

Post by jnsaff2 » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:48 AM UTC

natch wrote: post #12

Profanity alert. Don’t read this if you are sensitive. You. Do. Fucking. Not. Need. An EV charger, to charge your EV. A 110 or 220 outlet with a cord and an adapter will work just fine. Apologies for the US centric terminology but I expect the situation is roughly the same (though numbers vary) elsewhere. We did TWO Teslas in an apartment for two years sharing (alternating cars) a single plug of a single 110 outlet.…

I know a person who has done this with their tesla for like 6 years and to the point that they will not plug their tesla into anything more powerful because they think that charging it at 2kW is keeping their battery pristine. I don't think they realize that by pressing that accelerator pedal they can load the battery with ~300kW and therefore 2kW or 11kW or 22kW charging makes no effing difference.

Their daily commute is less than 100km so they have no problems charging the batts with their granny charger.

In our household we have one to four ~90% capacity commutes per week and being able to always get a full charge with the 11kW charger helps a lot.

So YMMV. I agree with you. Especially agree with the point that people should analyze their usage, maybe get some experience living with an EV and never give up on the first mental hurdle without even trying.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#33

Post by FatalLogic » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:48 AM UTC

As an interim solution, the property owner might be able to install large batteries (for example Powerwall) that renters could use to charge their vehicles. The batteries could be charged continuously, without overloading the old electrical service

Probably this wouldn't be enough if every renter was a heavy EV user, but it could be good for a few years, and also would be useful for power outages and to take advantage of off-peak rates in future

Metering and payment would be an issue, but it should be possible to find a solution for that

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#34

Post by natch » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:48 AM UTC

You do not need an EV charger to charge your EV. A 110 or 220 outlet with a cord and an adapter will work just fine. Apologies for the US centric terminology but I expect the situation is roughly the same (though numbers vary) elsewhere.

We did TWO Teslas in an apartment for two years sharing (alternating cars) a single plug of a single 110 outlet. It was fine. With this arrangement, yes, on days where you do big trips, there’s a supercharger visit, But normally, an outlet is totally sufficient.

An installed charger does add some very, very minor convenience (no adapter, big deal… not worth the cost). And if it needs to be shared and bills split, that’s different. But for basic charging no special installation is needed as long as you can reach.

I made this second copy of my comment because while profanity (in the other comment) makes some people take notice, it gives others the excuse they need to tune out the message, which is the same for both comments:

You don't need to install a charger.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#35

Post by IndrekR » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

natch wrote: post #12

Profanity alert. Don’t read this if you are sensitive. You. Do. Fucking. Not. Need. An EV charger, to charge your EV. A 110 or 220 outlet with a cord and an adapter will work just fine. Apologies for the US centric terminology but I expect the situation is roughly the same (though numbers vary) elsewhere. We did TWO Teslas in an apartment for two years sharing (alternating cars) a single plug of a single 110 outlet.…

If you buy electricity at the (hourly) market rate, you want to charge when it is cheapest and charge reasonably fast. On a typical 11kW home charger here in EU, that means about 6 hours for full charge or 1..2 hours for daily top-up. All the benefits for buying the electricity at hourly demand based rate disappear when full charging times approach 24h.

This has two benefits: it is cheaper to charge and the grid works more efficiently — price is lower when the demand is low and/or production is high.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#36

Post by silisili » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #30

readthenotes1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The grid absolutely can handle EVs." Maybe yours can. In California, they were recently asked to not charge cars during certain times of the day because the power system could not support the additional load. My understanding is that California's grid could have supported the load, they just weren't able to generate the electricity required to do so.

The vast majority of home EV charging happens at night. Is that when CA was telling people not to charge their cars?

Would America even function if gas stations were only open at night?

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#37

Post by technotarek » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

As a comparison, we just did a similar project in Washington DC for our ~105 year old row house. It cost us ~$2500 including permits and all materials except that actual EV charger unit (blanking on what that’s called). But that is BEFORE federal+DC tax credits worth about $1k.

Situations differ. Local policies and code differ. For a couple thousand dollars, my car will be fully sun powered (from our 11Kwh rooftop solar system). Gas savings over the life of the car should more than make up for it.

(We had previously upgraded our panel to handle more load and offer more slots when we renovated, but even that was under $3k.)

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#38

Post by ibotty » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

bhhaskin wrote: post #26

socialismisok wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen isn't either. The real solution is to not have so many gas vehicles. There's also no reason we can't provide charging at destinations rather than homes. Workplaces, shopping centers, etc. Transit, trains, ebikes, etc. are all significantly more efficient, less polluting, and just better solutions all around.

This is simply not practical out side of large urban areas in the US. Not only is distance a factor but also weather. No one is going to be riding an Ebike in 10° winter weather, and a lot of people commute 60+ miles a day. Not to mention that public transportation in a lot of areas can be... Let's just say perceived as unsafe. Hydrogen (by itself) is as clean as it can be. The byproduct is water.

Producing it is a little different though (not necessarily, but most of the time).

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#39

Post by eyelidlessness » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:49 AM UTC

zizee wrote: post #23

socialismisok wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, if you are renting out a unit as a landlord, you should be required to keep the property in compliance with code.

Sounds good, but just don't be surprised if this results in more expensive rents, and less affordable housing being built.

That’s exactly what the article author expected to do, they said they wanted to make their rental properties more expensive. No one’s installing anything in a rental unit out of the goodness of their heart. They’re literally seeking rent. At least they should be expected to keep up their end of the bargain.

Re: I tried to add EV chargers to my rental property

#40

Post by zizee » Tue, Oct 18, 2022, 6:50 AM UTC

bhhaskin wrote: post #3

This is one of the many reasons why I firmly believe that hydrogen hybrid are the future to replace gas vehicles. Charging at mass scale is just not feasible nor practical for most people. We can't even roll broadband out properly let alone the massive amounts of infrastructure required to deliver enough power to every home. That leaves centralized charging hubs which will quickly become overwhelmed and a massive tim…

As another top level comment stated, in a lot of circumstances you can make do with charging an EV from a normal outlet.

The post was mostly about the challenges with regulations/codes. For the most part it was a plea for governments to smooth over the jankiness they introduce to the whole process. Hardly an insurmountable challenge.

Hydrogen is dead. Upgrading the existing electrical network gradually over time (EV adoption will be gradual) is going to be significantly easier than building a distribution network from (almost) scratch as would be required for hydrogen. To think the reverse is bonkers.