Anyone has a link to the actual leaked documents?
Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
31–40 of 129 posts
Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And the Indian devs work their ass off out of fear of getting PIP’d and with their work authorization, they lose their job means they have to leave the country. This matches what I saw at Nike. Though it was a bit less extreme, it was the same dynamic. Indian-born workers got paid half what the American-born workers did for the same SWE jobs. And Indian workers couldn’t complain or push back against unrealistic exp…
Dozens of my Indian friends who work in WITCH companies in overseas locations are actually quite happy with their salaries. They are dying to work in overseas projects. Guess they are more than happy being a part of captive, exploitable force.
What does WITCH stand for here? Haven't seen that acronym before
Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It’s actually not stupid. It’s genius. It's genius if you don't have a shred of ethics left in your bones.
It's ethical too, because the terms of the deal are given to the employee up front, and if they're the kind of person who can do SWE at Amazon, it's nowhere near their only job option. Nobody forces them to take it, and they're not hurting for jobs. People opt in to this. They choose it over all of their other options because they believe it to be better than their other choices.
Hello Neoclassical Economics: Humans are rational actors in an ideal market, in which supply and demand is rationalizing out anything bad.
Is that really the world we live in? Have you met rational humans? Are we living in ideal markets?
Truth is, bad situations of all sorts are springing up and remaining in place long-term. A closer look at each individual issue (as done in this thread) reveals complex factors that need to be adressed. Using a simplistic model from economics to ignore any and all ethics (term used loosely for any attempt to do what's right) is not valid imo.
Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dozens of my Indian friends who work in WITCH companies in overseas locations are actually quite happy with their salaries. They are dying to work in overseas projects. Guess they are more than happy being a part of captive, exploitable force.
What does WITCH stand for here? Haven't seen that acronym before
The first company that came to mind was Wipro, which led me to this:
W- Wipro I- Infosys T- TCS C- Cognizant H- HCL A- Accenture India.
Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dozens of my Indian friends who work in WITCH companies in overseas locations are actually quite happy with their salaries. They are dying to work in overseas projects. Guess they are more than happy being a part of captive, exploitable force.
What does WITCH stand for here? Haven't seen that acronym before
[deleted]
Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And the Indian devs work their ass off out of fear of getting PIP’d and with their work authorization, they lose their job means they have to leave the country. This matches what I saw at Nike. Though it was a bit less extreme, it was the same dynamic. Indian-born workers got paid half what the American-born workers did for the same SWE jobs. And Indian workers couldn’t complain or push back against unrealistic exp…
Dozens of my Indian friends who work in WITCH companies in overseas locations are actually quite happy with their salaries. They are dying to work in overseas projects. Guess they are more than happy being a part of captive, exploitable force.
You can be happy working at a lower salary, doesn't mean that its not exploitative or that it distorts the labor market. Especially with the knowledge that the company holds your residency in their hand.
Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s actually not stupid. It’s genius. If you can do it at scale without damaging the company’s reputation, you’ve won the lottery. You make big promises to employees, maybe give a carrot to a very select few. Everyone else will either accept the long hours and grueling culture or they’ll leave, and if they leave, they’ll go before their RSU compensation vests. So the other thing you do is weigh compensation heavily…
> It’s actually not stupid. It’s genius. It's genius if you don't have a shred of ethics left in your bones.
It’s actually really stupid.
Not having ethics/empathy is actually _really dumb_ way to run a company.
They end up making a lot of people miserable. Eventually, all of the technology, market advantage yadda yadda catches up. IBM, Yahoo, heck even Meta/Facebook. Amazon won’t last.
But in their wake, they leave behind very different testimonials.
Working people to a grind has its obvious needs in times of crisis — I mean, that is literally what nations do via conscription in times of war. Everybody knows that.
But prop that culture up in a so-called attempt to stave off laziness, rest-and-vest or whatever and you’ll end up in state of perpetual war: a bleak, stupid world not even worth living in, let alone worth dying for.
Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
#38I stopped using Amazon for shopping about two years ago, because of how they treat warehouse staff. I never thought to work at Amazon, because I heard from multiple colleagues, former employees, that Amazon is profoundly metric based; then the stories such as this, about burning out staff, and about the fake PIP process, began surfacing.
Me too and now i have better & cheaper alternatives where i live.
Can you list some?
Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
#39It's not just Amazon that does this.
And there are only two ways to hurt them back for it.
One is people refusing to work there, which is obviously easier to do for engineers than for warehouse workers.
The second is refusing to make business with them. Just don't order your stuff from there, don't subscribe to Prime and so on, but I guess this is just too much to ask for the average guy whose whole personality revolves around the shows they are currently watching.
Re: Amazon’s attrition costs $8B annually according to leaked documents
#40I'm always amazed how little people know about how companies operate. Amazon does the same thing as many many companies and is treated as news. People are shocked that they are profit seeking, that they do barely legal but legal things, that they don't actively knowingly pay their workers more than they have to etc.
> The rate of serious injuries at Amazon warehouses in the United States is more than twice as high as those at other, non-Amazon warehouses, according to a new study that examines injury data supplied to the federal agency that oversees workplace safety.
> Amazon employed 33% of all US warehouse workers in 2021, but was responsible for 49% of all injuries in the industry, according to a report published Tuesday by the Strategic Organizing Center (SOC), a coalition of four labor unions.
(Source: https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/12/tech/amazon-injury-data-study...)
No, they are not "the same", they are worse. They are at the absolute fucking forefront of treating their workers badly. You don't hear about postal workers having to piss in bottles and shit in plastic bags to make their deliveries. You don't hear about warehouse workers at other companies having their bathroom breaks timed, probably because damn near no other company's leadership is sociopathic enough to build an automated system to time fucking bathroom breaks.