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Why Kubernetes is so complex

cloudplane.org

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Re: Why Kubernetes is so complex

#31

Post by kodah »

Cwizard wrote: post #26

Could someone explain to me in what why Kubernetes is complex and what alternatives are simpler? I’ve worked on non-k8s systems before and in my experience they all hang together with custom bash/python code which although line-for-line is ‘simpler’ it makes it harder to onboard new people and is less robust (excluding very simple deployments) K8s is very modular in my experience so if you don’t need something you ca…

I guess it depends on what you're comparing Kubernetes to. If what's being compared is a large codebase with lots of loosely connected cloud formation, then Kubernetes can make your life easier. If what's being compared is a small application that can run on a collection of EC2's behind an ASG and easily deployed via Terraform then it's probably complex for that usecase.

It's all relative.

Re: Why Kubernetes is so complex

#32

Post by xyzzy123 »

Cwizard wrote: post #26

Could someone explain to me in what why Kubernetes is complex and what alternatives are simpler? I’ve worked on non-k8s systems before and in my experience they all hang together with custom bash/python code which although line-for-line is ‘simpler’ it makes it harder to onboard new people and is less robust (excluding very simple deployments) K8s is very modular in my experience so if you don’t need something you ca…

Mostly agree, I prefer k8s to learning the custom duct tape for every project.

Observation: a side effect of being extensible is that people deploy extensions.

There is some kind of law of complexity budgets, where if you make the simple things easy, people will tend to ratchet up complexity by adding more stuff until the system "just" fits in their heads again.

Bare k8s with a simple ingress path and workload is predictable and nice to admin.

Cluster with lots of extra bits (custom autoscalers, cert-manager, complex ci systems, serverless stuff, custom operators, service meshes) can have lots of "non-local" interactions and seems to lead to environments that are scary to upgrade.

Re: Why Kubernetes is so complex

#34

Post by ionwake »

cloudking wrote: post #33

What's the advantage of using K8s over Google App Engine? GAE pretty much has out of box scaling, security, containers etc. You just deploy your app and let Google handle it.

Unless you hit the front page of hackernews are asked by google to upgrade your package due to increased traffic , you click yes, and then it immediately without warning takes it offline until a human can review the new agreement and details, in a few days time, ruining your launch. Mention it in the comments section then suddenly have 3 sketchy people saying it can’t have happened and asking for more information, giving you the impression some Of them are desperately trying to suppress the comment of all things instead of not saying anything or apologising.

The worst wasn’t the system literally was designed in a broken manner. It was the rudeness of anyone seemingly involved in the project.

But hey maybe that’s changed now.

Re: Why Kubernetes is so complex

#35

Post by marginalia_nu »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #32
Cwizard wrote: post #26

Could someone explain to me in what why Kubernetes is complex and what alternatives are simpler? I’ve worked on non-k8s systems before and in my experience they all hang together with custom bash/python code which although line-for-line is ‘simpler’ it makes it harder to onboard new people and is less robust (excluding very simple deployments) K8s is very modular in my experience so if you don’t need something you ca…

Mostly agree, I prefer k8s to learning the custom duct tape for every project. Observation: a side effect of being extensible is that people deploy extensions. There is some kind of law of complexity budgets, where if you make the simple things easy, people will tend to ratchet up complexity by adding more stuff until the system "just" fits in their heads again. Bare k8s with a simple ingress path and workload is pre…

You kinda need to still learn the custom duct tape though. Kubernetes is something you need to learn on top of all the details. It doesn't replace it. (It may however seem that way until you run into any actual problems with your software)

Re: Why Kubernetes is so complex

#36

Post by owenm »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #5
vaidhy wrote: post #4

I think the answer is hidden in the last paragraph. It was created by Google engineers to solve Google scale problems where they run maybe hunderds of thousands of services with a dedicated SRE team and massive tooling. For a small company, give me a way to run one container in an autoscable way and we can go from there.

> For a small company, give me a way to run one container in an autoscable way and we can go from there. What's the best way you've found to do that?

I really like Azure Container Apps for this. It's a great way to dip into the world of containers.

Re: Why Kubernetes is so complex

#37

Post by Annatar »

vaidhy wrote: post #4

I think the answer is hidden in the last paragraph. It was created by Google engineers to solve Google scale problems where they run maybe hunderds of thousands of services with a dedicated SRE team and massive tooling. For a small company, give me a way to run one container in an autoscable way and we can go from there.

No post body was provided.

Re: Why Kubernetes is so complex

#38

Post by nuker »

Cwizard wrote: post #26

Could someone explain to me in what why Kubernetes is complex and what alternatives are simpler? I’ve worked on non-k8s systems before and in my experience they all hang together with custom bash/python code which although line-for-line is ‘simpler’ it makes it harder to onboard new people and is less robust (excluding very simple deployments) K8s is very modular in my experience so if you don’t need something you ca…

AWS ECS

Re: Why Kubernetes is so complex

#39

Post by nuker »

dollar wrote: post #3
metadat wrote: post #2

After reading TFA I don't feel enlightened. I don't think the author answered or even began to seriously address the question posed in the title; the discussion is approximately a beginner-level introduction to K8s Controllers. A bit disappointed with cloudplane here. Edit: @dollar - good one! Quite plausibly the case.

Kubernetes is so complicated, the author got started describing it, then gave up and wandered off topic.

Instead of your 2c you gave whole dollar here

Re: Why Kubernetes is so complex

#40

Post by [deleted] »

Cwizard wrote: post #26

Could someone explain to me in what why Kubernetes is complex and what alternatives are simpler? I’ve worked on non-k8s systems before and in my experience they all hang together with custom bash/python code which although line-for-line is ‘simpler’ it makes it harder to onboard new people and is less robust (excluding very simple deployments) K8s is very modular in my experience so if you don’t need something you ca…

[deleted]
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