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Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

aljazeera.com

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Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#31

Post by _kbh_ »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #21

The Ukrainian-Russo war has shown the military the power of offensive drones. You think they are going to allow civilians to own such powerful potential weapons in the future? I think offensive drone warfare is just scratching the surface. I can think of a few modifications to drones, I've yet to see in Ukraine, that could increase their lethality 10x.

Some of the drones used by Ukraine have pretty wild so far, one ive seen rarely mentioned is this unknown larger drone that drops 10 grenades at a time, carpet bombing an area.

https://twitter.com/uaweapons/status/1555657070245986309

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#32

Post by mschuster91 »

magic_hamster wrote: post #26
mschuster91 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GPS might be helpful for drones (though it should be on the drone, not your phone) Actually, for the new EU regulations, you need to broadcast both the position of the drone and of the operator, at least for everything above class C1 ("remote ID", see [1]). And in any case, drones without working GPS are not fun to fly. DJI's Mini 3 Pro (and its larger friends) can do by using the collision-avoidance stereo cameras…

While this is interesting (broadcast to whom exactly?) my main point is that DJI demands access to your smartphone location even for products that clearly have no use for this information, while giving you a sideloaded app which is banned from the official store. To me, these point to a trust issue.

> While this is interesting (broadcast to whom exactly?)

It's hard to find any information about how Remote-ID is supposed to work, but in theory the ID packets are sent by WiFi NAN and Bluetooth so that they can be received by anyone in the radio range (which is quite important for authorities to track down violators, e.g. people flying around hospital helipads). Unfortunately, current phones seem to lack support hardware-wise (see [1], page 6).

[1] https://www.cencenelec.eu/media/CEN-CENELEC/Events/Webinars/...

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#33

Post by coldtea »

fisian wrote: post #20
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Now if there were any replacement for DJI I'd be happy... their tech stack is weird AF (e.g. you can only view synchronized flightbooks on your DJI RC controller or on the phone if you're using the sticks-only controller but not on the website or the macOS/Windows companion app, the damn expensive DJI RC controller doesn't do HDMI/DP output, the controllers can't be re-used between drone generations, DJI Fly is only…

There are competitors in EU and US: Skydio and Parrot are the first I can think of, although their products cost more and aren't as consumer focused.

There many companies that make drones outside of China. The question about replacement was more about "as good" drones...

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#34

Post by [deleted] »

ceejayoz wrote: post #8
magic_hamster wrote: post #3

They are absolutely right to do this, and private users should be wary as well. DJI's application (Mimo) has been banned from the Android Play Store for some time, with no explanation given by DJI. They offer an APK to side load, which is completely unsupervised, and requires access to your phone's accurate location and other invasive permissions no matter which of their products you are using. This is an important d…

> GPS might be helpful for drones (though it should be on the drone, not your phone) but there is absolutely no reason to use it for something like a phone stabilizer, which it absolutely requires and will not let you continue unless you turn it on. It’s for the flight restriction system. Won’t let you fly near schools, power plants, airports etc.

[deleted]

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#35

Post by jon-wood »

coldtea wrote: post #28
lom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s ridiculous that the cookie banner takes that much space. The site is pretty unusable like that.

That's the whole idea, that is should be if not a modal, then like a modal, to get a response from the user before proceeding with the site. Nothing ridiculous about it (except the GDPR law itself). Many news websites do it even bigger, or hide the whole screen with a modal white overlay.

GDPR does not mandate huge banners for every use of cookies. Those banners are mandated because the website in question wants to share information gathered on you with, in the case of most news websites, hundreds of third parties in order to make a little bit more money from advertisers.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#36

Post by magic_hamster »

mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Now if there were any replacement for DJI I'd be happy... their tech stack is weird AF (e.g. you can only view synchronized flightbooks on your DJI RC controller or on the phone if you're using the sticks-only controller but not on the website or the macOS/Windows companion app, the damn expensive DJI RC controller doesn't do HDMI/DP output, the controllers can't be re-used between drone generations, DJI Fly is only…

DJI definitely got the jump on this market, and more annoyingly, they make pretty good products if not for the trust issues.

But nothing lasts forever.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#37

Post by mbreese »

magic_hamster wrote: post #12
ceejayoz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GPS might be helpful for drones (though it should be on the drone, not your phone) but there is absolutely no reason to use it for something like a phone stabilizer, which it absolutely requires and will not let you continue unless you turn it on. It’s for the flight restriction system. Won’t let you fly near schools, power plants, airports etc.

This might not be the best way to go about it because what you care about in this scenario is the location of the drone, not the operator, who might stand outside the no flight zone. Which is another reason to use the drone's GPS signal in the app instead of your phone location. Either way when using a drone they will know your location, but there's no reason to let DJI access this information when using every single…

It might download a new restriction zone set based upon where the operator is. Without knowing anything about the internals of the drone, it would not be possible for the drone to have a full set of restricted areas for the planet. They change, get updated, etc…

For a drone, I understand the requirement. If you are using a drone, giving up your personal GPS location isn’t a big ask. You must be within sight line of your drone and the FAA may have a legitimate reason for knowing your personal location. (For most uses)

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#38

Post by mym1990 »

magic_hamster wrote: post #3

They are absolutely right to do this, and private users should be wary as well. DJI's application (Mimo) has been banned from the Android Play Store for some time, with no explanation given by DJI. They offer an APK to side load, which is completely unsupervised, and requires access to your phone's accurate location and other invasive permissions no matter which of their products you are using. This is an important d…

Wouldn’t the GPS on phone be primarily so that the drone knows where to go in case of emergency? I have also used a drone to follow me while on a bicycle or in a car…it seems like the phone would need GPS there as well.

Wondering if GPS on the drone would dramatically affect battery life as well?

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#39

Post by firecall »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #21

The Ukrainian-Russo war has shown the military the power of offensive drones. You think they are going to allow civilians to own such powerful potential weapons in the future? I think offensive drone warfare is just scratching the surface. I can think of a few modifications to drones, I've yet to see in Ukraine, that could increase their lethality 10x.

Assault Rifles seem to be ok for the US government to place into the hands of US civilians.

Re: Pentagon Puts DJI on Blacklist

#40

Post by coldtea »

varispeed wrote: post #30
germinalphrase wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ Seriously the EU and US need to step up and establish or at least fund companies that can compete with DJI and other sanctioned entities.” Establishing legible regulations, yes - but why should taxpayers fund drone companies? What is the public benefit in doing so?

The thing is companies in the EU can't use slave workers and there is no access to cheap resources that are mined without regulations and so on. But, big corporations are allowed to sidestep that by manufacturing in countries that don't care about that and so having huge competitive advantage over potential European manufacturers. For some reason the EU is not seeking level playing field with China. Opening tax payer…

>The thing is companies in the EU can't use slave workers and there is no access to cheap resources that are mined without regulations and so on

Sure they can. In the 1940s they did it to several million people (a large part Jews). Up until the mid-20th century they stole resources and took advantage of human capital directly in occupied lands ("colonies"). Now they do it through outsourcing work to sweatshops, child mines, and such, in Asia, Africa, and so on. They also do whatever they can to keep those "unregulated mines" and cheap resources flowing, by by the traditional way of meddling in their ex-colonies, toppling governments, and so on.

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