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Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

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Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#31

Post by 01acheru »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #25
01acheru wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... lawful order ... That's why it is not insubordination, the order must be lawful. Your boss is your superior but there are plenty of possible scenarios where disobeying their orders is not insubordination. Besides that, your boss is not in a position to give you orders . It is a work place not a prison or a platoon. In modern times insubordination is almost always related to military contexts.

Nah, insubordination is a very common term in employment law.

It depends on where you live, at least in Europe most people would find the word inappropriate. For us here "disobedience" or something alike would be a better term.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#32

Post by wiseowise »

volepole wrote: post #27
ifqwz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems an appropriate word... "Insubordination is the act of willfully disobeying a lawful order of one's superior." Your boss is your superior, so disobeying what he asks of you is insubordination.

Your boss is just some other person. If he thinks he's superior to anyone else, he can fuck right off. He'll end up as worm food just like the rest of us.

> Definition of superior (Entry 1 of 2) 1 : situated higher up : UPPER 2 : of higher rank, quality, or importance

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superior

Boss is by definition superior to your position, not in a sense better, but higher.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#33

Post by PebblesRox »

castis wrote: post #17
ifqwz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems an appropriate word... "Insubordination is the act of willfully disobeying a lawful order of one's superior." Your boss is your superior, so disobeying what he asks of you is insubordination.

Since the lawsuit was successful, the order given was proven to not be lawful. Thus, not insubordination.

True, but it's still the case that he was fired by his company with the claimed reason of insubordination. I think it's a valid translation given the context (i.e. talking about what they said he did, not about what he actually did.)

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#34

Post by Archelaos »

V__ wrote: post #12
gnfargbl wrote: post #4

> Less than a week after the plaintiff was fired, the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc. was deregistered from the Chamber of Commerce and shut down on 2 September, records show. So, it's a fair assumption that no organisation in the Netherlands is going to pay out as a result of this. What are the chances of the employee being able to enforce this judgment in a Florida court?

Looking at their website [1] they still have a location (branch?) in the UK. I don't know how Brexit changed the legal frameworks between the UK and EU, but I would assume that could be a avenue to get some enforcement. [1] https://www.chetu.com/locations.php

The UK (together with Denmark) was never part of the European Account Preservation Order, established in 2017. So the comparatively easy EU process to freez funds in another EU country was never possible there. What is possible according to UK law, I do not know.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#35

Post by msh »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #21
talideon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have missed the word "lawful".

lawful just means the order itself wasn't illegal. It doesn't mean that it's "enforcing the law" If I tell you to go buy 10 apples, refusing would be insubordination because it's legal to buy apples. If I tell you to go steal 10 apples, refusing would not be insubordination because it's legal to buy apples. Until the court ruled against them, the view of the firm would have been it was legal to require someone to hav…

No. It would only be lawful if you were legally entitled to require him to buy apples.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#37

Post by dsr_ »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

>there was no urgent reason given to justify the immediate dismissal given.” He alleged that the termination was disproportionate Damn sweet. I wish we had such great employee protection laws in Austria, where the company/employer can terminate your employment relationship without any reason at all. >Less than a week after the plaintiff was fired, the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc. was deregistered from the Chamber of…

I assume the company is not in good financial condition, either -- 75,000 euros should not be terribly burdensome, otherwise.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#38

Post by gambiting »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #3

>there was no urgent reason given to justify the immediate dismissal given.” He alleged that the termination was disproportionate Damn sweet. I wish we had such great employee protection laws in Austria, where the company/employer can terminate your employment relationship without any reason at all. >Less than a week after the plaintiff was fired, the Rijswijk branch of Chetu Inc. was deregistered from the Chamber of…

In the UK most people don't know that for the first 2 years of employment you can be let go for any reason(as long as it's legal) or no reason at all. Only after 2 years various employee protections kick in.

Re: Dutch employee fired by U.S. firm for shutting off webcam awarded €75K in court

#39

Post by yrgulation »

volepole wrote: post #27
ifqwz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems an appropriate word... "Insubordination is the act of willfully disobeying a lawful order of one's superior." Your boss is your superior, so disobeying what he asks of you is insubordination.

Your boss is just some other person. If he thinks he's superior to anyone else, he can fuck right off. He'll end up as worm food just like the rest of us.

The amount of people that advocate in favour of master-servant mentality is appallingly high. No wonder there are so many that prefer working in human farms.
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