CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ • Hacker News Board

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#31

Post by dangrossman » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 2:40 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #30

gbog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't agree more with "The ability to have root from the factory on a device you own should be a consumer's right in the states, just like getting your carrier unlock code." but please remove "in the states". When buying a computer, desktop or laptop, I would be extremely disappointed if I discover that I don't have the full ownership represented by "root access". When buying a car, don't we get the keys of the doors…

I don't understand why our expectations with mobile phones should be any different. The vast majority of people receive their cellphones under subsidy- signing up for a cellphone contract and getting a discounted price. In effect, you don't "own" the phone until the end of that contract, because they could (in theory?) take that phone away from you if you stopped paying every month. Now, I'm not saying I agree with t…

No, you own the phone the day you sign the contract. The remedy for terminating the contract early is spelled out in that contract -- an early termination fee to cover that subsidy you didn't pay back by staying a subscriber.

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#32

Post by retroafroman » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 2:40 PM UTC

estel wrote: post #26

kevin_jacobs wrote: post #3

Nice, but end users shouldn't have to root their phones and install a new OS just to not have all their data logged and reported on.

I've been hearing some rumours of OEMs considering releasing phones with CM installed by default. They're definitely starting to actively support development (I think both Samsung and Ericcson have been providing devices, and the latter have definitely been hinting at providing much more support).

Samsung acutally hired Cyanogen: http://www.slashgear.com/cyanogen-hired-by-samsung-will-cont...

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#33

Post by mikecarlucci » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 2:58 PM UTC

jtchang wrote: post #17

wmf wrote: post #2

Kicking them when they're down and fishing for compliments at the same time; impressive. Perhaps next we'll hear that CyanogenMod doesn't cause cancer.

You don't get it do you? As an engineer I couldn't care less about their small post. I already knew about cyanogen. As a run of the mill consumer though this post couldn't be more poignant. Raising awareness of an alternative firmware? That is huge. This is how Linux got started. Blame marketing all you want but the more people who know about Cyanogen the better.

This.

Cyanogen is still harder than jailbreaking an iOS device, but the gap is narrowing.

As that edge reaches more casual users, who aren't just tech-heavy people, there's no reason Cyanogen couldn't be the Ubuntu of Android phones. It could have a large base of converts who want an alternative but don't want to have to spend all their time learning how to use their software in (for us techies) awesome ways.

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#34

Post by gospelwut » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 4:08 PM UTC

Kylekramer wrote: post #27

Of course they don't. But they do have CMStats ( http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/cmstats-what-it-is-and-why-y... ). While it is much better than Carrier IQ (less intrusive and prompts you to opt out on install), it still proves this info has value and even the most "fight the man", dogmatic open source project wants it.

Standard Response: Fork it and remove it.

[nobody has aptitude or inclination to maintain such a thing]

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#35

Post by gospelwut » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 4:12 PM UTC

ck2 wrote: post #14

bad_user wrote: post #7

CyanogenMod is the reason why I was comfortable buying an Android, as I don't trust these Android phone makers to release updates in a timely manner or to care about me as a customer.

But how did you feel about all those strange programs you had to use to get root to install it? Because when I went through the process I was extremely nervous - even though most of the code is open source, how would you spot a backdoor if it was buried within a line? The ability to have root from the factory on a device you own should be a consumer's right in the states, just like getting your carrier unlock code.

I'm inclined to agree, but I want to make the caveat here that a lot of phones don't have encrypted bootloaders (e.g. the Droid RAZR) by default. The carriers throw a fit and refuse to buy the phone unless it's encrypted for their needs. So, the handset companies are listening. The carriers are the ones generally imposing these things.

Pitchforks: that way.

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#36

Post by gujk » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 4:14 PM UTC

beloch wrote: post #9

kevin_jacobs wrote: post #3

Nice, but end users shouldn't have to root their phones and install a new OS just to not have all their data logged and reported on.

Users of any of the Nexus models don't, and for that I'm thankful. However, I hope Google takes this bad press seriously and does something more than merely distance themselves from third party cell manufacturers like HTC that have installed Carrier IQ on their phones. Google could provide an update that would remove or disable Carrier IQ. Something to tide users over until the next OS update is available to their ph…

Google doesn't need CarrierIQ because they have their own spyware, such as in-the-background location tracking if you ever turn on the GPS or ask for location even once while running Maps or Plus, and of course because they mediate all your access to the world through their built-in apps, and don't offer an opt out from data collection and mining.

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#37

Post by cbs » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 5:11 PM UTC

Kylekramer wrote: post #27

Of course they don't. But they do have CMStats ( http://www.cyanogenmod.com/blog/cmstats-what-it-is-and-why-y... ). While it is much better than Carrier IQ (less intrusive and prompts you to opt out on install), it still proves this info has value and even the most "fight the man", dogmatic open source project wants it.

it still proves this info has value

"This info" is quite the weasel word. The set of data collected by cmstat, and what carrier's need spyware to obtain are mutually exclusive. Everything that CM stats collects would be available to carriers by looking at a combination of their sales, tower checkins, and firmware upgrades. After reading what data was included, I decided to opt-in my phone after previously opting-out by force of habit.

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#38

Post by Splines » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 5:34 PM UTC

kylewpppd wrote: post #28

dchest wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When buying a car, don't we get the keys of the doors and a way to open the front cover where the engine lies? You don't get the "keys" for ECU, unfortunately.

Cars to computers always seems to be a poor analogy. But you can replace the ECU with one of your choice. In fact, there is an industry designed specifically for getting better performance from your car by customizing the ECU. Isn't this the same thing as the Cyanogen mod?

That's more like buying a different phone. You don't have access to the internals of the shipped device, so you decide to use a different one.

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#39

Post by fr0sty » Fri, Dec 02, 2011, 5:59 PM UTC

kylewpppd wrote: post #28

dchest wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When buying a car, don't we get the keys of the doors and a way to open the front cover where the engine lies? You don't get the "keys" for ECU, unfortunately.

Cars to computers always seems to be a poor analogy. But you can replace the ECU with one of your choice. In fact, there is an industry designed specifically for getting better performance from your car by customizing the ECU. Isn't this the same thing as the Cyanogen mod?

> But you can replace the ECU with one of your choice.

As a counterexample: There are certain maintenance procedures for late model Audis that can only be done at the dealership. The diagnostic tool is connected to the car and then phones home to a central system to get vehicle-specific codes required to perform some actions. One such action, oddly enough is getting the car to recognize a new ECU[a].

[a] you can circumvent this by reflashing another ECU with special firmware to become a 'clone' of the original but this would be very analogous to having to 'root' your phone to install different software.

Re: CyanogenMod will never have Carrier IQ

#40

Post by marshray » Sat, Dec 03, 2011, 3:57 AM UTC

kylewpppd wrote: post #28

dchest wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When buying a car, don't we get the keys of the doors and a way to open the front cover where the engine lies? You don't get the "keys" for ECU, unfortunately.

Cars to computers always seems to be a poor analogy. But you can replace the ECU with one of your choice. In fact, there is an industry designed specifically for getting better performance from your car by customizing the ECU. Isn't this the same thing as the Cyanogen mod?

there is an industry designed specifically for getting better performance from your car by customizing the ECU

From what I hear, the ECU tuning industry works hand-in-hand with the automakers and they cooperate on the DRM.