Security in Plan 9 (2002) • Hacker News Board

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#31

Post by linguae » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 5:57 PM UTC

Bayart wrote: post #16

Plan 9 seems to be disproportionately influential for an OS nobody who's not into systems engineering has ever heard about.

It's a similar story with the Self programming language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_(programming_language). There are many software engineers and computer scientists who never heard of Self, but Self's prototype-based approach to object-oriented programming had a major influence on JavaScript, and a lot of the work done on making fast virtual machines for Self made it in the Java Virtual Machine.

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#32

Post by elfsl » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

No post body was provided.

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#33

Post by elfsl » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 6:01 PM UTC

No post body was provided.

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#34

Post by krossitalk » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 6:05 PM UTC

butterisgood wrote: post #8

rany_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hosted on a plan9 system

And? One can run a not-so-scalable web server on any OS last time I checked.

It would have been funny for a blip but this has been front page for >6 hours and it's still down

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#35

Post by oneplane » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 6:07 PM UTC

ithkuil wrote: post #28

enriquto wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and /proc Unfortunately, kids these days seem to be afraid of files. For a hardcore unix fan, curl and wget are useless tools when you can just cat /www/url

It's seems nice on a first glance. But how do you set headers and content type for example?

You echo the request into /www/url and cat the response from it

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#36

Post by pengaru » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #26

bear8642 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to be fair, it's where UTF-8 debuted

and /proc Unfortunately, kids these days seem to be afraid of files. For a hardcore unix fan, curl and wget are useless tools when you can just cat /www/url

/proc predates plan9, plan9 just made it hierarchical

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procfs#History

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#37

Post by MisterTea » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 6:35 PM UTC

spijdar wrote: post #30

stonogo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

virtfs USES 9p.

I think GP meant to say (the extremely confusingly named) virtio-fs, as opposed to virtfs/9pvirtio. Virtio-fs is independent of 9P and has optional support for using shared memory to greatly increase performance, it also maps better to the permissions and metadata of "modern" filesystems IIRC, not sure if 9pvirtio had this problem but I remember coworkers having permissions problems with the 9P bridge in WSL2 (Plan9'…

> Plan9's permission system is very simple and doesn't map well to other VFS's

Plan 9 is a pure VFS OS. 9p uses regular unix permissions which map just fine. The major issue is that since plan 9 is all vfs, there are no crufty unix leftovers like hidden dot files or hard/soft links. User specific configuration files belong in $user/lib and bind replaces hacky links. These old unix hacks were accommodated in 9p2000.u. Further extensions to .u resulted in 9p2000.L which adds some Linux metadata stuff (I cant remember right now, my memory of 9p2000.u/L is fading).

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#38

Post by MisterTea » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 6:39 PM UTC

ori_b wrote: post #25

MisterTea wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already done. https://orib.dev/9hack1.html

Still WIP. We're not yet at a million useful procs.

Ah, by "Already done" I was referring to to the fact that your blog post exists and addresses the performance issues :-)

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#39

Post by butterisgood » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 7:15 PM UTC

buildbot wrote: post #27

macshome wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple added support just in 2019! man mount_9p

Huh, could one use this instead of NFS then?

If you don't like performance very much - sure :-).

Re: Security in Plan 9 (2002)

#40

Post by anderspitman » Wed, Sep 28, 2022, 7:16 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #13

The 9p filesystem lives on in a few "modern" places, like within WSL, QEMU, and other places where it's a good bridge between a host OS and container or VM.

Unfortunately it's not implemented for Windows hosts. There's a patch in the works but the review of the first submission came back with a lot of requested changes. They're planning another submission though so hopefully it makes it in.