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Cloudflare Calls

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare Calls

#31

Post by badwolf »

endisneigh wrote: post #19
corytheboyd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, this rhetoric is getting old. So we're supposed to go use one of thousands of other tiny cloud platform providers? Okay let's entertain that idea. The first bare minimum items on your vendor approval checklist are things like "can I trust this business to exist in 10 years" , "do they have enough resources to support me when shit hits the fan", and "are they mature enough to deliver on the shiny bullet point…

> Isn't this process going to naturally select a small handful of providers? What am I missing here? No. It's possible to not do a lot and still last a very long time. Consider zippers, YKK has existed for almost a century and they only manufacture zippers.

"The YKK Group is a Japanese group of manufacturing companies. As the world's largest zipper manufacturer, YKK Group is most known for making zippers. It also manufactures other fastening products, architectural products, plastic hardware and industrial machinery."

followed by

"On September 19, 2007, YKK was fined €150.3 million by the European Commission for running worldwide price-fixing cartels and sharing markets with zipper-makers Prym and Coats."

Perhaps not the best example? (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YKK )

Re: Cloudflare Calls

#32

Post by BowBun »

rixthefox wrote: post #7

They really do want to be the center of everything it seems. I wish they would stop trying to be the Cisco of Networking in the sense of trying to convince a lot of people to let them handle critical network functions for a ton of networks. All it will take is one major outage for everyone to see this is a bad idea. Why trust a cloud provider who could go down and take half the Internet with it? Why centralize it tha…

Agreed. I think they do a lot of good for the ecosystem, but there's no reason to give one organization so much trust and to continue centralizing everything you do on their platform. They're very, very good at cultural and enterprise marketing though. My boss and countless others are completely sold that they should handle all of our complexities.

Re: Cloudflare Calls

#33

Post by leokennis »

rixthefox wrote: post #7

They really do want to be the center of everything it seems. I wish they would stop trying to be the Cisco of Networking in the sense of trying to convince a lot of people to let them handle critical network functions for a ton of networks. All it will take is one major outage for everyone to see this is a bad idea. Why trust a cloud provider who could go down and take half the Internet with it? Why centralize it tha…

I think the question you need to ask is: who can build, maintain and operate the needed infrastructure for "task x" better? Cloudflare or you?

For many (most) use cases, CF will operate at a resilience and stability and professionality level far above what they can achieve themselves.

Re: Cloudflare Calls

#34

Post by snarf21 »

teddyh wrote: post #2

Another “Let’s make Cloudflare the central server of the Internet” service, from what I can see.

Unlike Google or Amazon? What happens when there is an outage on either of those? I think it is great that there is more competition in the space writ large.

Re: Cloudflare Calls

#35

Post by teddyh »

onion2k wrote: post #24
teddyh wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You never really see that if AWS adds a product, or GCP adds a product or any other products from bigger CDNs. Accusations of hypocrisy is not an argument. Instead of accusing me (and all other detractors) of not criticizing others enough, please elaborate why this isn’t what I described. Cloudflare (and others) keep releasing products which makes their central role more central and less vulnerable to competition.…

please elaborate why this isn’t what I described Approximately 1/3 of the most popular websites use Cloudflare[1]. That's not really an argument against the fact that Cloudflare might want to be 'the central server of the internet', but it's a suggestion that they have some way to go yet. I'd bet that Google Tag Manager and some AWS services are integrated into more than 1/3. [1] From https://backlinko.com/cloudflare…

What, “They’re not an empire, they only rule ⅓ of the Earth’s surface!”?

Or “Cloudflare cannot possibly be taking advantage of their market share, since they have competition!”?

Re: Cloudflare Calls

#36

Post by mschuster91 »

rixthefox wrote: post #7

They really do want to be the center of everything it seems. I wish they would stop trying to be the Cisco of Networking in the sense of trying to convince a lot of people to let them handle critical network functions for a ton of networks. All it will take is one major outage for everyone to see this is a bad idea. Why trust a cloud provider who could go down and take half the Internet with it? Why centralize it tha…

> Why trust a cloud provider who could go down and take half the Internet with it? Why centralize it that much where that is even possible?

The problem is that governments worldwide have done little to curb abusive behavior that makes this all but necessary to survive on the Internet:

- India (for US/UK based callcenter scams) and Turkey (for German based) don't do shit against scam callcenters. There have been multiple high-profile Youtubers making videos exposing these scammers and police there hasn't done anything, some have even boasted about having connections to bribed police officers protecting them.

- Russia, China, North Korea and Iran haven't been kicked off of the Internet despite both nations actively running hacking campaigns and sheltering hackers and "bullet proof" hosters.

- Western governments still don't mandate open source or at least audits for Internet-connected appliance software, which means that there are tons of devices (smart cameras, other smart home systems, routers, ...) out there that end up compromised, and on top of that residential Internet connection speeds routinely cross 100 MBit/s these days giving compromised appliances an awful lot of leverage for DDoS attacks (which is the chief use case for employing Cloudflare, AWS Cloudfront+WAF and others).

There simply is too much abuse in the system

Re: Cloudflare Calls

#37

Post by endisneigh »

badwolf wrote: post #31
endisneigh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't this process going to naturally select a small handful of providers? What am I missing here? No. It's possible to not do a lot and still last a very long time. Consider zippers, YKK has existed for almost a century and they only manufacture zippers.

"The YKK Group is a Japanese group of manufacturing companies. As the world's largest zipper manufacturer, YKK Group is most known for making zippers. It also manufactures other fastening products, architectural products, plastic hardware and industrial machinery." followed by "On September 19, 2007, YKK was fined €150.3 million by the European Commission for running worldwide price-fixing cartels and sharing markets…

the fact that they were fined isn't really relevant to my point. you can use patagonia if you'd like

Re: Cloudflare Calls

#39

Post by mschuster91 »

badwolf wrote: post #31
endisneigh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't this process going to naturally select a small handful of providers? What am I missing here? No. It's possible to not do a lot and still last a very long time. Consider zippers, YKK has existed for almost a century and they only manufacture zippers.

"The YKK Group is a Japanese group of manufacturing companies. As the world's largest zipper manufacturer, YKK Group is most known for making zippers. It also manufactures other fastening products, architectural products, plastic hardware and industrial machinery." followed by "On September 19, 2007, YKK was fined €150.3 million by the European Commission for running worldwide price-fixing cartels and sharing markets…

YKK has the unique advantage that everyone working with clothing knows that the only brand to deliver consistently high quality is, you guessed it, YKK. There have been a number of HN submissions on that subject in the past.

Re: Cloudflare Calls

#40

Post by throwaway99797 »

Google missed their opportunity to do this: they've had Google Meet / Hangouts / ... for years. They have the same backend infrastructure that can scale to thousands and low latency to everywhere. Meet already does this with a custom Google protocol in the browser.

If Google had just opened their APIs, they could have provided this to everyone...

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