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Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

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Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#31

Post by scombridae »

enneff wrote: post #28
ars wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I guess bike can do that too? Is that how you prefer to live your life, in a constant war? How about each side respect the other - cars give bikes space, and bikes move over for faster moving cars.

You do realise the two things you are suggesting are contrary? How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way? The central issue here is that it’s simply not safe to ride over to the side, being constantly passed by fast moving cars. As demonstrated in more civilised places, it’s easy for cars and bikes to coexist if people just adopt a different attitude. And that is,…

no effect on their life.

Nearly everything we do has no near- or long-term effect. I'm a bicyclist, but also an organism whose time-distance feedback loop is jarred by a sudden obstructionist anomaly.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#32

Post by kitkat_new »

choeger wrote: post #23
version_five wrote: post #11

Cyclists and cars should not be on the same roads. It's silly to pretend that drawing some chevrons on the road or making a law that you need to do whatever around cyclists will make a difference. People who want cycling options should be advocating for separate paths dedicated to cycling, with proper signals when they need to cross car lanes so there is no ambiguity

I wholeheartedly disagree. Wherever bicycles and cars share the same routes, at roughly the same speed, they should share the same roads - at a speed that is safe for everyone, so about 30km/h. For routes and speeds that are different (highways), roads should be separated.

I think streets with speed limits of 20km/h or pedestrian velocity should be fine, too

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#33

Post by fyvhbhn »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #16

When cycling without bike lanes, I ride in the safest way I can: I often take up the middle of the lane at stopping intersections so that I get a turn in the queue and I have direct visual communication with drivers, and to eliminate at least one of the potential conflicts at the intersection. (Right hand turners from beside/behind in your lane.) I sometimes use a car in my lane as a "blocker" if I'm convinced it's n…

I wouldn't leave primary position if it's not safe to overtake though

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#34

Post by kazinator »

enneff wrote: post #28
ars wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I guess bike can do that too? Is that how you prefer to live your life, in a constant war? How about each side respect the other - cars give bikes space, and bikes move over for faster moving cars.

You do realise the two things you are suggesting are contrary? How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way? The central issue here is that it’s simply not safe to ride over to the side, being constantly passed by fast moving cars. As demonstrated in more civilised places, it’s easy for cars and bikes to coexist if people just adopt a different attitude. And that is,…

> How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way?

That's like asking, how is a motorist giving another motorist space, if he expects a motorist moving at 8 mph to pull over?

The faster motorist expects the slower one just to give up a portion of the space, for just a couple of seconds, to let them pass. Afterward, the slower one can have that space all to themselves until the cows come home, right?

"I need it for 3 seconds to get by; you can have it all day" is more than reasonable.

I don't understand where you're coming from. What if the cyclist comes to a complete halt and just stands there with the bike? Gee, how are you giving them space if you expect them to just stand off to the side and let other road users pass?

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#35

Post by kazinator »

jeffbee wrote: post #19
kazinator wrote: post #9

The problem is he's slow; he's going something like 15 km/h in narrow lanes where drivers are expecting to be able to go 30 km/h.

Drivers can fuck off. There are not minimum speeds in urban areas.

Sure; passive-aggressive maggots going 15 km/h (on vehicles of all types, motorized or not) are incapable of fucking off, so someone else has to.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#36

Post by jeffbee »

kazinator wrote: post #34
enneff wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realise the two things you are suggesting are contrary? How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way? The central issue here is that it’s simply not safe to ride over to the side, being constantly passed by fast moving cars. As demonstrated in more civilised places, it’s easy for cars and bikes to coexist if people just adopt a different attitude. And that is,…

> How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way? That's like asking, how is a motorist giving another motorist space, if he expects a motorist moving at 8 mph to pull over? The faster motorist expects the slower one just to give up a portion of the space, for just a couple of seconds, to let them pass. Afterward, the slower one can have that space all to themselves unt…

Drivers who are impatient toward cyclists are mostly taking out the frustrations caused by other cars on a visibly weaker and vulnerable road user. You wonder what would happen if a cyclist stopped in the middle of the lane? Car drivers do this all the time and they call it "double parking". Parked and double-parked cars use the majority of the road space and then drivers act like it's the cyclists who are delaying them. Fact is no cyclist has ever considered stopping needlessly in the middle of a lane. They do have places to go and a reasonable expectation of the enjoyment of the right-of-way in safety and comfort, however. Cyclists should and will operate at least 4 feet away from any parked cars, to avoid the "door zone". Drivers should anticipate this lane position from all cyclists, and should respond by staying a respectful distance behind the cyclist, chilling the fuck out, and passing if and only if a safe and legal opportunity presents itself. Any other expectation is just drivers being entitled pricks.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#37

Post by enneff »

kazinator wrote: post #34
enneff wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realise the two things you are suggesting are contrary? How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way? The central issue here is that it’s simply not safe to ride over to the side, being constantly passed by fast moving cars. As demonstrated in more civilised places, it’s easy for cars and bikes to coexist if people just adopt a different attitude. And that is,…

> How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way? That's like asking, how is a motorist giving another motorist space, if he expects a motorist moving at 8 mph to pull over? The faster motorist expects the slower one just to give up a portion of the space, for just a couple of seconds, to let them pass. Afterward, the slower one can have that space all to themselves unt…

If a cyclist has to yield to every passing car, then in any busy area (where most people travel) the cyclist effectively always has to be off to the side, which is not safe.

If the cyclist is not occupying an actual lane to themselves then they are constantly being passed too close by fast moving vehicles, and in danger of running into the suddenly-opening doors of parked cars or surprise pedestrians.

Seriously, if you go somewhere where drivers are respectful of cyclists you’ll see it’s just so easy for it all to work smoothly and safely. The impatience of drivers, at the expense of others safety, is astounding to me.

Also it should be noted that motorists give each other space for selfish reasons; they may damage their car or themselves if they collide with another car. If they hit a cyclist chances are they’ll kill or permanently maim the cyclist, but do little damage to their car, and so they have little reason to care. (!!!!!!)

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#38

Post by enneff »

scombridae wrote: post #31
enneff wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realise the two things you are suggesting are contrary? How is the driver giving the cyclist space if they expect the cyclist to move out of their way? The central issue here is that it’s simply not safe to ride over to the side, being constantly passed by fast moving cars. As demonstrated in more civilised places, it’s easy for cars and bikes to coexist if people just adopt a different attitude. And that is,…

no effect on their life. Nearly everything we do has no near- or long-term effect. I'm a bicyclist, but also an organism whose time-distance feedback loop is jarred by a sudden obstructionist anomaly.

Yes I can see how the existence of other beings may be inconvenient to you.

Re: Bicyclist pisses everyone off by ‘legally’ riding in the street (2020)

#40

Post by cirrus3 »

r00fus wrote: post #30
version_five wrote: post #11

Cyclists and cars should not be on the same roads. It's silly to pretend that drawing some chevrons on the road or making a law that you need to do whatever around cyclists will make a difference. People who want cycling options should be advocating for separate paths dedicated to cycling, with proper signals when they need to cross car lanes so there is no ambiguity

Cyclists do demand it. It's just hard to fight against the car culture that's built up in the US. I think the things to break it will be a) better mass transit options b) more WFH and c) cheaper e-bikes so longer commutes/grocery trips can be done without a car.

Car culture hasn't "built up". It has always been. It is on cyclists to change it, if they aren't winning, there is a reason - people like this guy are not helping their cause at all.
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