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Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

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Re: Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

#31

Post by viggity »

qwph wrote: post #23
jobeirne wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health care is not a human right. It is not my obligation to make sure that you survive.

Health care is not a human right. You may want to read Article 25.1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights before reconsidering that statement. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disabi…

What if the US doesn't make it a right? What is the UN going to do? Write us some angry letters that threaten us with more angry letters? Fuck the UN and their bullshit.

This nation was built on individual liberty and responsibility, not as a nanny state.

Re: Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

#32

Post by qwph »

akbar5919 wrote: post #27
qwph wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health care is not a human right. You may want to read Article 25.1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights before reconsidering that statement. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disabi…

If you're quoting the UN on human rights, you've already lost. Current members of the UN Human Rights Council: China Cuba Ghana Nigeria

The UN is the worst institution we have for advancing international human rights, except for all the others.

Re: Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

#33

Post by qwph »

viggity wrote: post #31
qwph wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health care is not a human right. You may want to read Article 25.1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights before reconsidering that statement. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disabi…

What if the US doesn't make it a right? What is the UN going to do? Write us some angry letters that threaten us with more angry letters? Fuck the UN and their bullshit. This nation was built on individual liberty and responsibility, not as a nanny state.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Re: Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

#34

Post by DanielBMarkham »

qwph wrote: post #32
akbar5919 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're quoting the UN on human rights, you've already lost. Current members of the UN Human Rights Council: China Cuba Ghana Nigeria

The UN is the worst institution we have for advancing international human rights, except for all the others.

You should wash your mouth out with soap for misquoting that. The UN is a treaty body, meant for eliminating global conflict.

That's it. It's not a global government. It has no representation from the masses, it has no balanced system of government, it has no executive to speak of.

It's done a great job of preventing WWIII. Let's leave it at that.

Re: Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

#35

Post by [deleted] »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #34
qwph wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN is the worst institution we have for advancing international human rights, except for all the others.

You should wash your mouth out with soap for misquoting that. The UN is a treaty body, meant for eliminating global conflict. That's it. It's not a global government. It has no representation from the masses, it has no balanced system of government, it has no executive to speak of. It's done a great job of preventing WWIII. Let's leave it at that.

[deleted]

Re: Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

#36

Post by anamax »

tptacek wrote: post #18
anamax wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, everyone in the US is covered, there are just different plans. The gap is wrt insurance. The uninsured have "free" (read taxpayer supported) options. (Yes, there are treatments that aren't covered in those options, just as there are in every system, including those in "universal healthcare" systems.) Note that about half of the insured are insured through US govt programs. Interestingly enough, the cost of…

The uninsured do not have "free" options. The "taxpayer supported" mechanism kicks in only after you've been bankrupted. There's a difference between uninsured and broke .

> The "taxpayer supported" mechanism kicks in only after you've been bankrupted.

Some do, but others don't. You can go to county or free clinics. When/if they bill, ignore.

Re: Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

#37

Post by anamax »

tptacek wrote: post #18
anamax wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, everyone in the US is covered, there are just different plans. The gap is wrt insurance. The uninsured have "free" (read taxpayer supported) options. (Yes, there are treatments that aren't covered in those options, just as there are in every system, including those in "universal healthcare" systems.) Note that about half of the insured are insured through US govt programs. Interestingly enough, the cost of…

The uninsured do not have "free" options. The "taxpayer supported" mechanism kicks in only after you've been bankrupted. There's a difference between uninsured and broke .

The key point remains that the US govt has a huge role in the current healthcare system. The programs that it runs that have comparable scope to the private programs do not produce better results or cost less.

Why should anyone believe that they'd do better if they covered everyone?

Re: Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

#38

Post by tptacek »

anamax wrote: post #37
tptacek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uninsured do not have "free" options. The "taxpayer supported" mechanism kicks in only after you've been bankrupted. There's a difference between uninsured and broke .

The key point remains that the US govt has a huge role in the current healthcare system. The programs that it runs that have comparable scope to the private programs do not produce better results or cost less. Why should anyone believe that they'd do better if they covered everyone?

That's not the key point of your argument at all. Your thesis is that everyone is covered, under different programs. That's demonstrably, decisively false: the "program" that covers the uninsured first denies them long-term preventative coverage, then forces them into emergency rooms, and finally drives them into bankruptcy. It is the most expensive, least efficient mechanism for all parties involved.

The easiest way to come to the conclusion that the government would do better is to recognize that the only way we could possibly do worse would be to let people die in the emergency room instead of treating them.

Your argument appears merely to redefine the word "covered" to mean "screwed".

Re: Obama Tax Plan a Frontal Assault on Entrepreneurs

#39

Post by tptacek »

anamax wrote: post #36
tptacek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The uninsured do not have "free" options. The "taxpayer supported" mechanism kicks in only after you've been bankrupted. There's a difference between uninsured and broke .

> The "taxpayer supported" mechanism kicks in only after you've been bankrupted. Some do, but others don't. You can go to county or free clinics. When/if they bill, ignore.

You appear to be confusing flu shots and zithromax scripts with a real health care system, which responds to cancer, heart disease, and life-threatening injury.

It's not the ear infections that bankrupt people.

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