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Whatever works for you

marco.org

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Re: Whatever works for you

#31

Post by tptacek »

vectorpush wrote: post #29
tptacek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the whole point of his post. Marco is saying he has finally come to realize that "tech savvy" doesn't mean "qualified to suggest changes". He's not being lazy. He's talking about humility. Some people's real-life logistical issues transcend technological issues.

I think you're missing luigi's point. He's simply remarking that the OP didn't have to advocate a change in use pattern in order to lend his expertise to his friend's father. Instead, the OP made the choice not to use his time assisting someone who doesn't want to "go all Apple". Of course, the OP isn't obligated to offer free tech support, but he certainly could have helped.

No, he couldn't, because his "help" will set the guy back. That's what he's saying. You might disagree, but then explain why.

Re: Whatever works for you

#32

Post by jaetldev »

tptacek wrote: post #31
vectorpush wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing luigi's point. He's simply remarking that the OP didn't have to advocate a change in use pattern in order to lend his expertise to his friend's father. Instead, the OP made the choice not to use his time assisting someone who doesn't want to "go all Apple". Of course, the OP isn't obligated to offer free tech support, but he certainly could have helped.

No, he couldn't, because his "help" will set the guy back. That's what he's saying. You might disagree, but then explain why.

Constructive help would've probably helped the user make an informed decision to 'switch'. OP probably means that going a step beyond and even advocating a patch work strategy might have better convinced the user to switch(in time...) rather than advocacy.

Re: Whatever works for you

#33

Post by cfarnell »

orenmazor wrote: post #22

adding my ten-ish year history of supporting other people (I'm also pushing 30), I've learned this one fact: trying to help other people will frequently result in my taking ownership of ALL of their problems in their eyes. which seems like a really jerk-like perspective to take, and it is a little bit.

Right. As soon as you touch their machine you are responsible for everything that subsequently goes wrong. But, they are not necessarily being jerks, they truly have no idea how the thing works.

Re: Whatever works for you

#34

Post by srl »

Slightly tangential, but it seems to be popular to assume that fanboyism is universally a bad thing. Which makes sense intuitively, but here's the thing: I _like_ fanboys.

When I meet a fanboy of something I don't tend to use or like, I make a point to talk to them as much as possible. It starts off rocky - after all, I'm coming from a completely different perspective, and to me, everything they're saying is obviously idiotic. But I persist. I try to get them to convince me however they can, that they are right. And very frequently, I learn a whole of new _something_, if I'm not introduced to an entire new way of doing and/or thinking about things. Worst case is I hone my debating skills. Best case, my life significantly improves.

Not that fanboyism is always, or even usually, a good thing. In most cases, it's politest (and easiest!) to stop the argument before it gets to the point of calling into question the other person's expectations (and I find myself doing that alot, especially with relatively nontechnical folk). But for me - I _want_ my expectations to be called into question. And nobody forces me to refine - and trash - my own ideas as well as the most hard-headed of fanboys.

Re: Whatever works for you

#35

Post by mattgreenrocks »

pacomerh wrote: post #17

That's fine I hope other people adopt this mentality, and I'm talking fanboys for whatever platform. Whatever works for you applies to everything, I use the computer to make music and I know other people who also do the same and use different platforms and I always see people saying "Oh you should use pro-tools to really make good music" Can you believe that?, hehe. The operator is what matters.

We need to create communities where loud-mouthed, snarky individuals do not feel welcome. As it is, they're on a great majority of the Internet.

It gets very tiring.

Re: Whatever works for you

#36

Post by daleharvey »

srl wrote: post #34

Slightly tangential, but it seems to be popular to assume that fanboyism is universally a bad thing. Which makes sense intuitively, but here's the thing: I _like_ fanboys. When I meet a fanboy of something I don't tend to use or like, I make a point to talk to them as much as possible. It starts off rocky - after all, I'm coming from a completely different perspective, and to me, everything they're saying is obviousl…

I at least, and I think most people, have a distinction between 'fan of' and 'fanboy'

Where the line is that a fan of a something can talk about its virtues and concede its limits, but a fanboy will gloss over any limitations as irrelevant / wrong "its not a bug its a feature"

Re: Whatever works for you

#37

Post by daleharvey »

srl wrote: post #34

Slightly tangential, but it seems to be popular to assume that fanboyism is universally a bad thing. Which makes sense intuitively, but here's the thing: I _like_ fanboys. When I meet a fanboy of something I don't tend to use or like, I make a point to talk to them as much as possible. It starts off rocky - after all, I'm coming from a completely different perspective, and to me, everything they're saying is obviousl…

I at least, and I think most people, have a distinction between 'fan of' and 'fanboy'

Where the line is that a fan of a something can talk about its virtues and concede its limits, but a fanboy will gloss over any limitations as irrelevant / wrong "its not a bug its a feature"

Re: Whatever works for you

#38

Post by greggman »

orenmazor wrote: post #22

adding my ten-ish year history of supporting other people (I'm also pushing 30), I've learned this one fact: trying to help other people will frequently result in my taking ownership of ALL of their problems in their eyes. which seems like a really jerk-like perspective to take, and it is a little bit.

This is why I no longer fix most of my family's computer problems. My dad pays some guy to re-install windows about once every 18 months or so. I don't really know how to help him without becoming his personal IT slave so I just politely say "I don't know"

Re: Whatever works for you

#39

Post by orenmazor »

greggman wrote: post #38
orenmazor wrote: post #22

adding my ten-ish year history of supporting other people (I'm also pushing 30), I've learned this one fact: trying to help other people will frequently result in my taking ownership of ALL of their problems in their eyes. which seems like a really jerk-like perspective to take, and it is a little bit.

This is why I no longer fix most of my family's computer problems. My dad pays some guy to re-install windows about once every 18 months or so. I don't really know how to help him without becoming his personal IT slave so I just politely say "I don't know"

My dad luckily takes care of his own computer problems. I used to support my grandmother.

You learn a great deal about yourself and technology after you spend 15 minutes trying to explain the concept of scrollbars to an 80 year old.

Re: Whatever works for you

#40

Post by toddheasley »

My wife's friend recently moved from a large city, where she didn't have a car, to live with her boyfriend in a smaller town. It's a smaller town without much public transit. My wife's friend knows how to drive, but her boyfriend's car has a manual transmission. On a recent visit, the friend is complaining that her boyfriend won't teach her how to drive his car. Being proud of the fact that I (barely) know how to drive a stick, I volunteer to teach her. Her boyfriend doesn't object, so out to the car we go. I drive to a nearby empty parking lot and trade seats with my wife's friend. She's ready to learn.

"The pedal to the left of the brake is the clutch. Push it all the way to the floor," I begin. She takes her left foot off the brake and pushes in the clutch...

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