Why everyone hates the IT department • Hacker News Board

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#31

Post by gatlin » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 3:59 AM UTC

oz wrote: post #18

gatlin wrote: post #3

I feel like ranting - maybe this will generate a good discussion. Most of my experiences with IT have been fine. I worked at a Texas state agency once, though, that caused me to dream about throwing IT workers out my office window. For starters, I was not allowed to use my own equipment. They rattled off some gibberish about security and support even though my mail client supports SMTP and I can read Office files jus…

I was a sysadmin for a financial services firm, and then for a Big-4 accounting firm, so I may have some perspective: 1. "For starters, I was not allowed to use my own equipment. They rattled off some gibberish about security and support even though my mail client supports SMTP and I can read Office files just fine. Also, for an agency focused on security their insistence on using Windows XP was baffling." The first…

It sounds like if you'd been my IT guy at the state agency, I'd have had a much better time - simply because I would have had intelligent arguments :) The reason the printers were like this is some initiative by our dumbass Governor called "Team for Texas," I'm told. It's not my IT guy's fault but it is dumb IT policy which is definitely why IT people get bad reps (even if it's not their fault) which I think is related to the article.

I know the internal web app argument for IE6 but all of the apps were native Java apps on top of Oracle databases.

I can't imagine it would take more than a cursory look at Notepad++ to vet it.

My main point here was that the IT guys were clearly not trained or knowledgeable. My mother works for this same agency and she has a lot of stress because of their inflexible and archaic policies. If they're going to make her life hell in the name of "security" then I expect them to actually provide security.

As far as my current job, we're expected to maintain our own machines because if we had to file a request for every shared library we need, nothing would get done. So, we're trusted with maintaining our own systems but they bothered getting our root passwords. And then continuing to trust us. It's confusing.

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#32

Post by gatlin » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 4:01 AM UTC

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #25

oz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a sysadmin for a financial services firm, and then for a Big-4 accounting firm, so I may have some perspective: 1. "For starters, I was not allowed to use my own equipment. They rattled off some gibberish about security and support even though my mail client supports SMTP and I can read Office files just fine. Also, for an agency focused on security their insistence on using Windows XP was baffling." The first…

Even large corps give their programmers admin on their own computers. No average or above programmer would work for a company where they had to request permission to install a text editor. That's simply unacceptable.

I resent that! :) But since I do have admin and I'm leaving soon, maybe not ...

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#33

Post by linuxhansl » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 4:04 AM UTC

That is because IT in many companies IT is a not-innovating, ticket handling entity.

I've certainly seen my share of it.

You file tickets for everything, there is no "thinking" from IT's side, they just do what they are told. This effect seems to be proportional to the IT departments size.

Often this is also a result of misguided policies. I worked at places where IT was explicitly barred from hiring programmers that could help automating the processes.

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#34

Post by gatlin » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 4:04 AM UTC

purephase wrote: post #4

gatlin wrote: post #3

I feel like ranting - maybe this will generate a good discussion. Most of my experiences with IT have been fine. I worked at a Texas state agency once, though, that caused me to dream about throwing IT workers out my office window. For starters, I was not allowed to use my own equipment. They rattled off some gibberish about security and support even though my mail client supports SMTP and I can read Office files jus…

1. Equipment deployed and supported by the organization most likely has additional applications for encryption, can be managed remotely and updated on a regular basis. It is far more secure, and costs less to the organization as a whole. 2. I doubt it was for security. Most likely they don't have the resources to support multiple browsers/versions for business applications and settled on a single one. It sounds like…

Oh, I know. That's why I was hoping I could just convince them to take my SS card or something in exchange for handing me the keys to my own machine.

Needless to say, it didn't work. I did, however, make friends with the IT guy assigned to me who was hired the same day I was (same orientation). He sympathized :)

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#35

Post by diego_moita » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 4:06 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #5

There are three big problems with IT departments (IMHO): 1. Anyone who is sufficiently skilled to be good at his or her job in the IT department is almost certainly overqualified so the system self-selects out good people; and 2. Like any other support role people only tend to notice you when things go wrong; and 3. My general experience with DBAs, sysadmins, techs and the like is that they generally resent you for a…

Well, I should stress that software is your company core business. In most "normal" businesses it is seen just as an expense.

Companies that give strategical priority to software usually end up having less problems with it. The other companies buy crap (cheap IT personnel, managers that don't understand technology) and only get crap. And we should expect it to get even worse, as outsourcing creeps in.

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#36

Post by wh-uws » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 4:11 AM UTC

oz wrote: post #18

gatlin wrote: post #3

I feel like ranting - maybe this will generate a good discussion. Most of my experiences with IT have been fine. I worked at a Texas state agency once, though, that caused me to dream about throwing IT workers out my office window. For starters, I was not allowed to use my own equipment. They rattled off some gibberish about security and support even though my mail client supports SMTP and I can read Office files jus…

I was a sysadmin for a financial services firm, and then for a Big-4 accounting firm, so I may have some perspective: 1. "For starters, I was not allowed to use my own equipment. They rattled off some gibberish about security and support even though my mail client supports SMTP and I can read Office files just fine. Also, for an agency focused on security their insistence on using Windows XP was baffling." The first…

Thanks for sharing that. I've always wanted to hear what it was like to be an IT guy at an enterprise / non technical type of company.

Always wondered why they had those rules

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#37

Post by Bo102010 » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 4:28 AM UTC

fuzzix wrote: post #23

Bo102010 wrote: post #19

A lot of my problems with IT departments would be solved if the IT folks recognized that people with degrees in computer engineering and computer science tend to be able to take care of their own machines. Also, if they would quit telling me that I can't run VLC because it's not secure, when they have 3 year old versions of the Java Runtime Environment installed on everyone's PC.

"A lot of my problems with IT departments would be solved if the IT folks recognized that people with degrees in computer engineering and computer science tend to be able to take care of their own machines" But that's not true. I work as a developer or an admin depending on my mood and the money, I would not consider one able to do the job of the other even though I have done each with the same degree in hand. The di…

I don't doubt that the skills that make a good system admin are distinct from those that make a good engineer.

I do doubt that the people making and enforcing IT policies that, e.g. lead to insecure versions of Java being installed on thousands of machines, are more capable than I am at managing the machine I need to use.

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#38

Post by diego_moita » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 4:30 AM UTC

bodegajed wrote: post #21

patio11 wrote: post #10

Moral of the story (and very applicable to individual HN members): don't be a cost center.

Easier said than done. Most upper management will always see it as a support for the company like HR. I don't think that will ever change in the future. Moral of the story. Don't work at an IT department, work at software companies.

I've been in both sides (software and non-software) and agree. In software companies the IT department is better for simple reasons: they are more valued, their costumers demand more competence from them and people do less stupid things in general.

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#39

Post by quanticle » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 4:32 AM UTC

KyleBrandt wrote: post #30

gatlin wrote: post #3

I feel like ranting - maybe this will generate a good discussion. Most of my experiences with IT have been fine. I worked at a Texas state agency once, though, that caused me to dream about throwing IT workers out my office window. For starters, I was not allowed to use my own equipment. They rattled off some gibberish about security and support even though my mail client supports SMTP and I can read Office files jus…

It seems like a lot of your dislike of the IT department is a redirected dislike of these policies enforced by IT. In most law firms, government, and big finance you will likely encounter a lot of these sort of policies. Some of these policies make sense, even though the reasoning is not obvious. The policies are created because of constraints around laws and auditing and they can result in some nasty solutions. Othe…

Getting around the policies just to get around the policies makes you an ass, I agree. Getting around the policies to do your job, on the other hand, does not.

I worked at a firm where I was asked by a VP to perform some testing on a VM. The VP wanted the test results by the end of the week. IT said that it would take at least three weeks to approve the specific VM software for my machine, even though there were other developers already using the software. End result? I ended up installing it and doing my job without IT's permission. I had made sure to get everything in writing from the executive, so I could show IT my reasoning if I was ever called out for it. I'm not proud of what I did, but I don't think I should have to ask permission in order to do my job.

Re: Why everyone hates the IT department

#40

Post by knieveltech » Sun, Nov 27, 2011, 4:38 AM UTC

gatlin wrote: post #3

I feel like ranting - maybe this will generate a good discussion. Most of my experiences with IT have been fine. I worked at a Texas state agency once, though, that caused me to dream about throwing IT workers out my office window. For starters, I was not allowed to use my own equipment. They rattled off some gibberish about security and support even though my mail client supports SMTP and I can read Office files jus…

If any of my "users" where to pull any of the bullshit stunts you've listed here on my watch I guarantee you I'd have them fired within five business days if it meant I had to send spoofed mail from their address containing horse porn to the head of HR to pull it off.

In a medium to large company, IT's job isn't to make you happy. This is typically impossible thanks to a combination of understaffing and budget issues. Their job isn't to debate you on software choices or provide coherent explanations of corporate IT policy. It isn't even keep you productive. It's to make sure the cube dwelling luddites (and if you aren't in IT you are one, regardless of how much you know about computers) don't break critical infrastructure.

Spend 32 hours over a weekend quarantining and disinfecting an entire network because some dickhead decided he needed to bring in his malware-infected laptop to work and the standard company policy banning private equipment comes into focus pretty quickly.