Flanderization • Hacker News Board

Re: Flanderization

#31

Post by MonkeyMalarky » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 1:56 PM UTC

DaedPsyker wrote: post #27

themanmaran wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While we see this a lot with influencers (and I think Joe Rogan is another great example). The phenomenon isn't exactly new. News anchors, writers, country singers, etc. have all been doing the exact same thing for decades. Doubling down on simple characteristics that resonate with their target audience.

I wonder how this differs though from refinement. Particularly for real people such as musicians, an element of it is also surely removing cruft that just wasn't interesting.

I think the difference is that refinement is when the core aspect improves through effort and in Flanderization the core stagnates or degrades through lazyness.

Re: Flanderization

#32

Post by shanusmagnus » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

This is one of those moments that makes me fall in love with the internet all over again.

I've thought about this idea (without knowing there was a term for it!) wrt aging in real life. So many people seem to become increasingly caricature as they get older. The guy who likes woodworking and European travel becomes the embodiment of woodworking and European travel. It's all he talks about. His kids roll their eyes at Thanksgiving -- there dad goes again. Etc.

I've been playing around with metaphors, trying to get the flavor of this. I like the one about multiplying two vectors together, where small vector elements shrink, larger vector elements get (relatively) bigger. The vector becomes a more exaggerated version of what it was. And it makes intuitive sense: he spends more time wordworking, wordworking activities crowd out non-wordworking activities, his social engagements intersect wordworking, more of his friends become woodworking friends, and slowly the gravity of his internal world pulls everything in that direction. Nothing sinister about it.

I thought: how would you prevent such a thing? And should you?

Anyway, I'm rambling. But I would welcome any further pointers that could enrich my thinking about this idea.

Re: Flanderization

#33

Post by vagrantJin » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

lekevicius wrote: post #13

I found one particular example of the opposite change quite annoying. In the TV Show “Suits”, the premise is that a character Mike has incredible photographic memory, can to read books and evidence at unbelievable speeds. As the show went on, this unique trait was almost completely removed. I think by season 3 it was just gone completely, turning the show into a regular law drama.

Too many shows go on for too long and end up "killing" the writers. When the juices arent flowing, best to fall back on tried and trusted.

Re: Flanderization

#34

Post by willis936 » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 2:06 PM UTC

I argue that this is closely related to superdeformed versions of more serious contemporaries (SD Gundam and Teen Titans Go as popular examples in the West).

You could draw a line from chibi in the 80s to flanderization. Of course flanderization ties in with a lot of other concepts related to positive feedback loops that others here mention. I just think it's interesting that there is a history of the cartoonization of cartoons and that character features are chosen to match appearance/vice versa.

Re: Flanderization

#35

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 2:18 PM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #7

Is Flanderization just synecdoche - where one attribute becomes the reference for the whole, or is it a new co-oridnate on the spectrum of metonymy and simile? The comment about Rick and Morty actively avoiding the flanderizing of their characters seems a bit off, as the whole season 5 finale was the flanderization of Morty, where he (a version of him) self actualizes as blandly malevolent, likely acting on urges tha…

To the best of my understanding, no. Part for whole thing is like an extended symbol and as a poetic device short lived at that, while flanderization is appears to be characterized as a longer term process that effectively focuses on a specific part without excluding the rest ( its importance is just progressively diminished ).

I am not sure if I agree. The show is not even. Some episodes are absolutely brilliant and some are very forgettable at best, but I can't really cast Morty as being flanderized since it is not main protagonist's sidekick, but 'evil morty'. And even then, it is not Umbrella Corporation level of evil, where it is apparently written somewhere down in the business plan, mission and strategy to be evil. He is evil based on the goals he chose for himself and what it takes to get him to those goals.

Re: Flanderization

#36

Post by kibwen » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

Not to be confused with bowdlerization: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expurgation

Re: Flanderization

#37

Post by RC_ITR » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 3:02 PM UTC

themanmaran wrote: post #20

adamgordonbell wrote: post #5

There is a tendency for this to happen in real life with influencers. Certain aspects resonate with an audience and so they overemphasize them. https://gurwinder.substack.com/p/the-perils-of-audience-capt...

While we see this a lot with influencers (and I think Joe Rogan is another great example). The phenomenon isn't exactly new. News anchors, writers, country singers, etc. have all been doing the exact same thing for decades. Doubling down on simple characteristics that resonate with their target audience.

Here’s something crazy.

Rewatching early Simpsons episodes as someone who first saw Flanders post Flanderization: He’s a less compelling satire because it’s so nuanced, complex, and narrow.

He’s not the obvious bad person that Marcy D’Arcy is, but he’s also not the aspirational zen master that Wilson from Home Improvement is either. He’s just kind of a normal-ish OK guy who’s not a compelling foil to Homer.

Take his funniest characteristic (calling reverend Lovejoy at night) and make him a broad vehicle to satirize American Protestantism, and he’s actually a compelling character.

On the other hand, Lisa’s evolution kind of sucks.

Re: Flanderization

#38

Post by kcplate » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 3:04 PM UTC

shanusmagnus wrote: post #32

This is one of those moments that makes me fall in love with the internet all over again. I've thought about this idea (without knowing there was a term for it!) wrt aging in real life. So many people seem to become increasingly caricature as they get older. The guy who likes woodworking and European travel becomes the embodiment of woodworking and European travel. It's all he talks about. His kids roll their eyes at…

My father in law used to describe this as “the older you get, the more you are boiled down to your true essence”

Re: Flanderization

#39

Post by bitwize » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 3:06 PM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #14

Sounds a lot like in music when dealing with RIAA labels and their business model: “YES! That was a massive hit! Now do it again!” …and Sir-Mix-a-Lot has said routinely in interviews the more of the novel element but turned up wasn’t the best idea as a follow up to “Baby Got Back” the legit smash. Let’s just say his next album’s lead single became a punchline in Aqua Teen Hunger Force as spoken by the Moonenites.

I first came across Mix-A-Lot by winning a single of his at a school dance before "Baby Got Back" dropped. It was called "One Time's Got No Case" and was about being harassed by the police.

Such a talented fellow doesn't deserve to be an effective one-hit wonder.

I think PSY suffered from the same problem: the world (outside South Korea) wanted another Gangnam Style.

Re: Flanderization

#40

Post by User23 » Sat, Sep 10, 2022, 3:14 PM UTC

A real life example from Computing Science is Edsger Dijkstra. His contributions to the field were extensive, but from talking to people and Google search results he’s now just the minimum spanning tree guy.