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Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

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31–40 of 277 posts

Re: Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

#31
The first thing I thought of when I saw the pacemaker photo was to adapt the miniature RTG to power a digital watch. People have Nixie tube watches, I want my RTG powered watch.

I'd use a capacitor to accumulate a charge which would power one of the really old-school LED digital watches of the early 70s.

Totally impractical, dangerous and illegal? Sign me up!

Re: Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

#32
post #27
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not related to nuclear, but the startup Bloom Energy was aiming this by fuel cells. A small box could power a house for a year, as they claimed. Trouble was the box internals run at very high temperatures (800°C) and there was potential for things going awry. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom_Energy

This is established and commonly installed technology in Japan. It's called EneFarm. Lots of newish houses connected to natural gas have these largish boxes out front. The odd name leaves most people confused. The EneFarms used to be heavily subsidized by the japanese government in a long term program to encourage fuel cell development and manufacturing. Over time prices have decreased such that the subsidy is either…

Just because you pay a positive non-zero amount for less than a quarter of the energy in, it does not mean that a device has greater than 100% efficiency, which is not possible.

If heat pumps are 400% efficient then log burners in cabins in the woods are even better.

Re: Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

#33
post #3

Wonder how I slided into the world of Fallout? WTF!?! We have plutonium powered pacemakers? http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2015/ph241/degraw2/ Ah, okay we had . > Despite the often longer life-expectancies, nuclear pacemakers quickly became a part of the past when lithium batteries were developed. Not only did the technology improve, allowing for lighter, smaller, and programmable pacemakers, but doctors began to…

> allowing for doctors to check in on their patients and replace either the batteries or the pacemakers themselves I cynically read this as "we needed to get more money out of these patients"

You really should not. 60 beats per minute means that in ten years the leads of a pacemaker will be bent *315 million* times. That's an order of magnitude higher than we typically test fatigue resistance, and even if we were that confident about being able to produce flawless materials, there are millions of different enzymes and acids and temperature fluctuations in the body. Any one of those could impact the fatigue resistance.

Additionally, any kind of implanted device is significantly prone to a wide range of problems that range from inconvenient to devastating. The human body is very hostile to foreign objects, often with few warning signs. Clots and fibrous capsules (and eventually, calcified capsules) form around ANY implant, and that's the best case problem.

Titanium is extremely biocompatible. It forms a thinner capsule than most materials. It integrates with bones beautifully, due to surface treatments that allow bone to grow into microscopic surface cavities, with strong molecular bonds. But also sometimes, for no apparent reason, all the bone around a titanium implant will just start dying and resorbing. It's rare, but if you get a hip replacement you absolutely need to check on it regularly because if you don't you'll lose use of the leg completely (and quickly, and permanently).

In and around the heart is one of the most challenging places to implant things, aside from maybe the brain. Any moving part of the body will constantly stress any mechanical part, and build up scar tissue around and rubbing spots. The only reason the brain is worse is because its fragile and changes size significantly when you sleep.

Recently we started using leadless pacemakers. Even before that pacemakers were continually getting smaller, and smaller pacemakers are less irritating and experience less stress and movement. Even if that weren't true, it would still be worth checking in on pacemakers, because they're doing incredibly hard jobs and if they fail people can die faster than they can get to a hospital.

EDIT: oh, and heart disease is the #1 cause of death in the US, while heart surgery is one of the most difficult specialties to get in to. They are absolutely never short on patients, lol.

Re: Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

#34
post #5

Just got me thinking: What would it take for us to get to a point where there are small, safe nuclear powered "batteries", that can supply enough electricity for a building.

XKCD style what-if:

We'd need to have a lot of money, a disregard for return of investment and a lot patience: Current RTGs can do that, but they're rather expensive for heating houses and problematic from the nuclear materials POV (waste / profileration), not to mention the regulatory and licensing for using it a neighbourhood - better budget the time and money for lobbying for some legislation changes.

If by building we mean say 10 apartments, and each needs 10 kW, the RTG would need hundreds of kg of Pu-238 plutonim dioxide [1].

It's hard to cite the exact cost for that since it's not a freely traded commodity but that's a lot of plutonium. Eg NASA said that with a $75-90 million investment they can make 1.5-2 kg per year of it. [2]

[1] https://drinksavvyinc.com/blog/how-much-does-a-radioisotope-... gives 2 kW per 5 kg [2] https://www.space.com/20774-plutonium-spacecraft-fuel-nasa-b...

Re: Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

#35
post #25
post #17

Tragically relevant story to accompany this article: the Goiânia accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

Quoted post unavailable.

Is something less tragic if the victims weren’t fully participating in capitalism at the time of injury? If they’re performing a societal function that you obviously think is beneath you?

Re: Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> allowing for doctors to check in on their patients and replace either the batteries or the pacemakers themselves I cynically read this as "we needed to get more money out of these patients"

I read this as: Most patients don’t survive those 10 years anyways.

A number don't. But as far as the number that needs some kind of pacemaker tune-up or revision during that time-- it's a really big share.

Re: Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

#37
post #25
post #17

Tragically relevant story to accompany this article: the Goiânia accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

Quoted post unavailable.

Yeah, tragic. They are no less human than you are. They had no clue what they were doing, like all of us in general. What fraction of the population is aware of the effect of radiation and the toxicity of medical sources? How would they go about assessing the risk in this situation?

Uncontrolled contamination can also harm innocent bystanders, in this case children.

Re: Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

#38
post #25
post #17

Tragically relevant story to accompany this article: the Goiânia accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

Quoted post unavailable.

That is an extremely cavalier take, especially considering:

> His six-year-old daughter, Leide das Neves Ferreira, later ate an egg while sitting on this floor. She was also fascinated by the blue glow of the powder, applying it to her body and showing it off to her mother. Dust from the powder fell on the egg she was consuming; she eventually absorbed 1.0 GBq and received a total dose of 6.0 Gy, more than a fatal dose even with treatment.

Maybe read the article before commenting?

Re: Nuclear-Powered Cardiac Pacemakers

#39
post #17

Tragically relevant story to accompany this article: the Goiânia accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident

Ooh, the Cobalt-60 incident in Mexico is also pretty crazy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciudad_Ju%C3%A1rez_cobalt-60_c...

There were houses built of contaminated rebar! The story gets crazier the more you read about it.

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