Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#31

Post by tomlin » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 2:21 AM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #2

This HN title is inaccurate. There's no evidence that Microsoft or Apple actually supported SOPA. Merely an industry association of which they are members, supported it. This association removed its support. A more appropriate title would be "Business Software Alliance withdraws support for SOPA." I'm pretty sure most people on HN who know what SOPA is, know who the BSA is, and if not they'd learn it from reading the…

> it seems likely the BSA was engaging in knee jerk support and didn't consult its membership.

So, you're saying these companies aren't responsible for their actions because they stand behind an organization that they pay into? Must be nice. I wish I could haphazardly align myself with interest groups and just hope everything works out for me, but if it doesn't, have deniability.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#32

Post by james33 » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 2:35 AM UTC

bgentry wrote: post #25

bgentry wrote: post #16

The word in the title should be "Withdraw", not "Withdrawal"

An explanation would be appropriate if you're downvoting.

I up-voted you, that was the first thing I noticed when reading the title.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#33

Post by tsotha » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 2:59 AM UTC

andrewfelix wrote: post #15

This is great news. I think HN and it's members probably helped a lot in making this happen. Give yourselves a pat on the back, you're enacting change!

Or at least preventing change that wouldn't have been good. But of course, this thing will be back next year, probably chopped up into little pieces and inserted into other bills.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#34

Post by JDulin » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 3:18 AM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #2

This HN title is inaccurate. There's no evidence that Microsoft or Apple actually supported SOPA. Merely an industry association of which they are members, supported it. This association removed its support. A more appropriate title would be "Business Software Alliance withdraws support for SOPA." I'm pretty sure most people on HN who know what SOPA is, know who the BSA is, and if not they'd learn it from reading the…

I understand what you are saying and will try to make future HN posts more accurate.

However, the BSA has been the only source of info as to what Apple, Microsoft, and most of the other association members have to say on SOPA. To my knowledge, none of the companies with BSA membership have made any independent statements[1] on the bill, and if so, certainly not on the scale Google did. * My hunch is that the BSA was created for a reason in addition to stopping copyright infringement: To represent these companies without their explicit support, just like any good lobbying company.

If we are considering evidence as to what these companies' positions are, the BSA is the only source we have, and the fact most of them stand to gain from software licenses.

[1] If anyone has seen a BSA member show opposition to SOPA in the past few weeks, I'd like to see.

*Edit

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#35

Post by ImprovedSilence » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 3:22 AM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #11

Can anyone on the inside explain how this kind of thing works? This is my thinking: These companies belong to different trade groups. They pay their dues, contribute opinions on different things, but mostly leave these groups alone and go on doing their actual business. Meanwhile, the trade groups advance their own agenda, given a mostly free hand by their constituency, which again, has better things to do. The group…

Organizations such as the BSA, are business driven, and thus their policy follows where their money comes from. In this case, the BSA's source of money comes form it's members (Apple, Microsoft.. ect) So it's very likely that some, or all, members were behind this bill. Keep in mind that withdrawing support very well may be a political ploy, SOPA got TONS of negative press, so affiliations such as the BSA may have backed off simply in order to get the public off their back, re-group, and attempt to get a similar, yet less widely criticized bill through. Also, all these companies affiliated with the BSA have long histories of fighting piracy, as they license expensive software, so don't for a second think they are completely on the publics side here.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#36

Post by ImprovedSilence » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 3:24 AM UTC

nirvana wrote: post #2

This HN title is inaccurate. There's no evidence that Microsoft or Apple actually supported SOPA. Merely an industry association of which they are members, supported it. This association removed its support. A more appropriate title would be "Business Software Alliance withdraws support for SOPA." I'm pretty sure most people on HN who know what SOPA is, know who the BSA is, and if not they'd learn it from reading the…

Guilt by association. I didn't hear Apple or Microsoft threatening to withdraw funding for the BSA in light of this bill.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#37

Post by thomasgerbe » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 3:30 AM UTC

"The definitions of who can be the subject of legal actions and what remedies are imposed must be tightened and narrowed."

Glad he pointed out the obvious. (not being sarcastic)

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#38

Post by there » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 3:34 AM UTC

daeken wrote: post #10

andrewfelix wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BSA represents its members. How could that not possibly suggest complicit support?

I'm an EFF member and strongly support the overall cause, but also strongly disagree with many of its initiatives and positions. I imagine the situation is similar with regards to the BSA and its members, as it is with any group.

off-topic: what are some of their initiatives and positions you strongly disagree with?

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#39

Post by wnight » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 3:53 AM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #11

Can anyone on the inside explain how this kind of thing works? This is my thinking: These companies belong to different trade groups. They pay their dues, contribute opinions on different things, but mostly leave these groups alone and go on doing their actual business. Meanwhile, the trade groups advance their own agenda, given a mostly free hand by their constituency, which again, has better things to do. The group…

These companies wouldn't pay dues unless they were getting value from it. And I bet most have got an employee whose job it is to follow what these organizations are doing to make sure they're still worth the huge dues.

So no. I imagine almost everything done by a group like this is with the explicit approval, if not at the request, of almost all their members. But by not having to put their name on it they get an out in case it blows up in their face.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA

#40

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 23, 2011, 4:46 AM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #11

Can anyone on the inside explain how this kind of thing works? This is my thinking: These companies belong to different trade groups. They pay their dues, contribute opinions on different things, but mostly leave these groups alone and go on doing their actual business. Meanwhile, the trade groups advance their own agenda, given a mostly free hand by their constituency, which again, has better things to do. The group…

[deleted]