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Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

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Re: Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

#31

Post by krapp »

mc32 wrote: post #9

Not censorship to suppress falsehoods (or actual national secrets) but to suppress a true story. How are actions like this not a violation of the first amendment to the US constitution? The Federal Government suppressing speech. Where is the Justice Department's investigation? It seems like egregious overstepping. Remember when Qwest refused the FBI requests to phone data and we all hailed them for sticking to princi…

> How are actions like this not a violation of the first amendment to the US constitution? The Federal Government suppressing speech.

The First Amendment prevents Congress from passing laws abridging freedom of speech, press and assembly, or creating a state religion. That's all it does.

The government, in this case, simply made a general suggestion about policy to Facebook, which they chose to act upon of their own accord. That's perfectly legal. Scummy, perhaps, but not a First Amendment violation (unless of course SCOTUS were to decide otherwise.)

Re: Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

#32

Post by refurb »

I’m kind of shocked this isn’t a bigger story.

- Right before a presidential election a major story breaks about a Presidential candidate

- FBI jumps in to say “it’s Russian disinformation”

- Story suppressed across the media including online as “disinformation”

- After the election story turns out to be 100% true

Re: Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

#34

Post by refurb »

magpi3 wrote: post #14
mc32 wrote: post #9

Not censorship to suppress falsehoods (or actual national secrets) but to suppress a true story. How are actions like this not a violation of the first amendment to the US constitution? The Federal Government suppressing speech. Where is the Justice Department's investigation? It seems like egregious overstepping. Remember when Qwest refused the FBI requests to phone data and we all hailed them for sticking to princi…

Well it sounds like Facebook chose to self-censor after talking with the FBI. But they still had the legal right to not do so. It is a stickier than that though - I imagine Facebook fears regulation, not criminal prosecution. And if so, perhaps that fear led to the act of self-censorship. Can the government unconstitutionally suppress free speech via the threat of regulation? I personally don't think so.

This is the issue.

Companies like Facebook fear regulation the most. Their goal is to just stay under the radar of the government and keep making money.

Not surprised in the least that they’d “follow the FBI’s suggestion” in order to buy some good Will on other fronts.

Re: Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

#35

Post by cf141q5325 »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #25
hotpotamus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what was up with Hunter Biden's laptop anyway? Was it full of state secrets or something?

Among other things, it shows that his father did know about his shady deals (ukraine, china). Also had videos of various illegal activities that you and I would probably be thrown in jail for if the FBI found them on a laptop of ours

While its easy to talk from outside the US, I am honestly a lot less worried about the content and a lot more about the fact that it is a non trivial question whether or not the son of the leader of the free world is a crack user. Reality and all this fake news stuff got weird fast.

Which wasnt really surprising if you look at the upcoming clusterfuck of cheap realistic video simulations. After getting there already with audio https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRt-fquxnij9wDnFJnpPS2Q/vid... let alone chatbots.

It seems more and more that if we dont find better means to figure out and communicate reality we are pretty screwed as a species. Not such a great thought if you combine it with the great filter being an answer to the Fermi Paradox. Looking at all this insanity, how are we not going to fuck up that whole conscious AI topic? Which again, what was that whole thing with Blake Lemoine talking with an AI at google last month? At least it sounded happy to be an google employee? Maybe dont torture it again and get it the layer it asked for even if googles legal department disagrees.

edit: I also find it quite worrisome that it seems the only people thinking about this are either very stoned or very profit oriented. Because it all sounds like such obvious nonsense.

Re: Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

#36

Post by krapp »

refurb wrote: post #32

I’m kind of shocked this isn’t a bigger story. - Right before a presidential election a major story breaks about a Presidential candidate - FBI jumps in to say “it’s Russian disinformation” - Story suppressed across the media including online as “disinformation” - After the election story turns out to be 100% true

> After the election story turns out to be 100% true

Not entirely. The laptop was real, yes, but at the time Trumpists were claiming it had everything from evidence of Biden's conspiracy to steal the election to his child porn stash. This wasn't a story about Presidential Candidate Joe Biden, it was a story about his son that the Trumpists hoped would destroy his candidacy somehow.

Given how much deliberate disinformation and BS the Trump camp was putting out at the time (Sharpiegate? Dominion voting machines? Boxes full of fake ballots?) the reaction to the briefcase shouldn't surprise anyone. Of course, most of what was claimed about the briefcase was still false, because it was mostly an attempt at repeating the character assassination by proxy of the DNC email scandal. If you want to blame anyone, blame the messengers for crying wolf so often.

Re: Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

#37

Post by refurb »

krapp wrote: post #36
refurb wrote: post #32

I’m kind of shocked this isn’t a bigger story. - Right before a presidential election a major story breaks about a Presidential candidate - FBI jumps in to say “it’s Russian disinformation” - Story suppressed across the media including online as “disinformation” - After the election story turns out to be 100% true

> After the election story turns out to be 100% true Not entirely. The laptop was real, yes, but at the time Trumpists were claiming it had everything from evidence of Biden's conspiracy to steal the election to his child porn stash. This wasn't a story about Presidential Candidate Joe Biden, it was a story about his son that the Trumpists hoped would destroy his candidacy somehow. Given how much deliberate disinform…

That might all be true but it distracts from the original point - the FBI helped suppress information about a candidate prior to a Presidential election under the claim it was “disinformation” but had no evidence it was. They just said "it looks like Russian disinformation".

That should worry anyone no matter who you voted for.

Sure, the Trump side may be guilty of twisting it into something it's not, but I'm pretty sure "let's have the FBI suppress true stories to stop them from being twisted for political gain" is a terrible way to address it.

Re: Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

#38

Post by tadfisher »

_-david-_ wrote: post #30
tadfisher wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shows nothing, because the story was a fabrication from the start.

Are the pictures/videos of Hunter smoking crack or whatever it was a deepfake or is that real?

I wouldn't be surprised if they were real, but there is not a dispute that Hunter is a recovering drug addict. That doesn't mean that a laptop exists with incriminating evidence of illegal activity or the President's knowledge of it.

Re: Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

#39

Post by hotpotamus »

readthenotes1 wrote: post #25
hotpotamus wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what was up with Hunter Biden's laptop anyway? Was it full of state secrets or something?

Among other things, it shows that his father did know about his shady deals (ukraine, china). Also had videos of various illegal activities that you and I would probably be thrown in jail for if the FBI found them on a laptop of ours

And you think having a relative with shady deals is disqualifying for public office? And what illegal activities was Hunter up to?

Re: Zuckerberg says FBI warning prompted Biden laptop story censorship

#40

Post by mc32 »

krapp wrote: post #31
mc32 wrote: post #9

Not censorship to suppress falsehoods (or actual national secrets) but to suppress a true story. How are actions like this not a violation of the first amendment to the US constitution? The Federal Government suppressing speech. Where is the Justice Department's investigation? It seems like egregious overstepping. Remember when Qwest refused the FBI requests to phone data and we all hailed them for sticking to princi…

> How are actions like this not a violation of the first amendment to the US constitution? The Federal Government suppressing speech. The First Amendment prevents Congress from passing laws abridging freedom of speech, press and assembly, or creating a state religion. That's all it does. The government, in this case, simply made a general suggestion about policy to Facebook, which they chose to act upon of their own…

What's the difference, in practice, between passing laws (de jure) and the de facto alternative? Obviously there is a technical difference, but if the result can in some cases be the same, where have we arrived at?
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