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Living closer together

aeon.co

31–35 of 35 posts

Re: Living closer together

#31
post #10
post #6

This is PURE FOLLY. Really. Cities always have problems but in the past they also have many advantages, being dense means having sewers problems, who led to health problems, but also being many skilled in different things, able to defend against enemies, able to communicate in a world without powerful transportation means etc. Nowadays cities are needed: - by dictatorships since very few can control very many, making…

How do you think the carbon footprint per capita compares between urban and suburban areas? Take a look at this study by UC Berkeley [1]. It is quite clear that we need to be reducing our carbon footprint, and living in cities is the responsible choice unless the global population begins to plummet. [1] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es4034364

Compare in what time frame? Cities can't evolve. You can now build a new tall building full a small apartments with the best insulation etc "A class". In 10 years it will be far less efficient and there is no way to improve it. Similarly you can build single-family homes and re-made them when they change owner. The scale and amount in involved peoples permit that. As a result if you compute the "carbon footprint" (witch have normally NO ecological meaning, it's just a means to munge money BTW) of a hypothetical new city vs an equally hypothetical new riviera you can state the city is better. If you enlarge the timeframe to 50 or 100 years the result reverse.

Similarly if instead of computing a hypothetical new city you compute a REAL present city and the "needed investment" to improve it keeping the density at a similar or even more dense scale than you obtain horrific results for ALL cities, especially for the big and dense ones.

Carbon footprint concept is just a classic management game, meaningless in scientific terms, but dressed as science to be sold to a receptive public. The reality is that we know we need to evolve and we know cities can't evolve. UN New Urban Agenda was made as a way to force people in factory-cities, like nazi interment camps or soviet union gulags, to use them to produce a new society for some others.

Capitalism simply have reached a point John Maynard Keynes and Rosa Luxembourg both predict a century ago: now that the entire world is run by capitalism there is no one to steal we need to create one. That means enslaving a vast cohort of population to try replicating a classic colonialism development model. Carbon footprint as a social score is try to classify people by census, since of course if you are poor you likely live in an old building, typically an apartment, your score is then horrific. If you are wealthy you likely have resources to build a new house, with p.v. and co to improve the score computation as a result your score is good. Since your score is good you are obeisant (in the sense that you use your resources to enrich those behind the Green New Deal, and you still been able to pay more in the future) you are allowed to live in a luxury building profiting from the poor's who work in the modern smart-city.

Oh, you might state that that's an ideological position, but in that case try to design a new society from the present to a projected 2030+ future. Try to be honest in the simulation and see the results. Similarly see the Toyota Smart City demo https://youtu.be/p-9X8Z2kJt8 and read about https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/19/why-greeces-ex... try finding similarity and differences. Go ahead and imaging a new modern city made to be ecologic, compute how many things are needed to make it and once built how can or can not evolve. Do the same for a vast riviera of small buildings where general infra (like roads, water, electricity, ...) are reduced to the minimum. Try to see what McKinsey publish in their future vision, like https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/uam-full-... and try to imaging how such vision can work ONLY for VERY FEW on top of all others simply because of density scale.

It's quiet clear, at least to me, the future some want for humanity, and it's also clear most humans do not even have tried to imaging a realistic future based on their public agenda.

Re: Living closer together

#32
America historically hasn't done very well with moderation or restraint. When most Americans hear "we should have more density," they immediately think of Kowloon's high-rise buildings, or New York City everywhere. With good reason! If there were no limits at all, that is certainly what developers would build, as it's very efficient in terms of revenue per area of land.

There's a middle ground that is available in many places around the world, in which zoning allows for much denser building, but at a higher standard of noise reduction and stability, and not so dense we all live in high-rise apartments.

I don't think we should build high-rises everywhere, and I hate American-style wood frame apartment buildings with nothing but drywall separating apartments, even as I like the zoning changes that have allowed the "5 over 1" buildings to spread. Retail on the ground floor with apartments above is great! A variation on "5 over 1" that required concrete walls and better windows would be welcome, I think, although developers would always choose the wood-frame buildings if allowed to.

Overall I'm saying: think less of Shanghai and Manila, or Manhattan and Chicago, and more of Barcelona and Paris, of a sort of area that doesn't seem to exist in the US: with minimal roads and "soundproof" apartments.

Re: Living closer together

#33
I live in a terraced house. It's a good compromise. I have a small garden, a front door, I actually own the land and can work on my own house, and I have walkable public transport and metros.

There is literally no reason for me to live in a flat other than if society does that silly thing where they don't build enough or let hoarders buy everything. It's race to the bottom BS.

Just don't let that happen and there you go, problem solved.

Re: Living closer together

#34
post #8
post #2

I dont know, the frenetic rebound of tourism this year tells me that people don't want to live closer together unless they have to

It's been noted that American tourists absolutely love the charm and density of European cities when they visit but somewhere over the Atlantic, they forget that they could have that at home too, if it were legal to build.

Why don't you sing the praises of Egypt, Thailand or the myriad of Caribbean islands? Tourists love those places, hell they love anything as long as you keep the ugly out of view. I grew up in a first world tourist town. It was a meth ridden dump full of swindlers and was absolutely no place to raise a family unless you had some tourist business your kids were keen on inheriting and running. "Tourists like it" is completely and totally tangential to whether somewhere is nice to live.

Re: Living closer together

#35
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would American high density look like charming antique cities, or would it look like China's modern made high density? Shanghai was cool to visit but I definitely wouldn't want to live there. Or would it look like something else? Changing zoning is not going to suddenly create charming 300-1000 year old walking cities highly curated and subsidized by tourist dollars to make tourist destinations but that sure gets pus…

Only a person living on a farm would have enough straw for that strawman :). Again people view this as a choice of suburbs or Manhattan, with nothing in between. Removing zoning allows for choice, freedom, and possibilities, where there is currently none. What happens after that is going vary too much to summarize in an HN comment.

The straw man I was replying to you mean? Zoning allows my to build a house and know there won't be an asphalt plant built down there street(something I had to fight being granted an 'acception'). Zoning gives me the stability to know that THE LARGEST INVESTMENT I will make IN MY LIFE will be suitable for my intended purpose. Without stability you will end up with nothing.
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