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The gathering crisis in the UK

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Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#31

Post by giraffe_lady »

Victerius wrote: post #14
reb wrote: post #4

It’s eerie how similar the issues facing western nations are and how intractable the disagreements over solutions have become. Desperate balkanization coming for many, I think.

Or an opportunity for a powerful figure to take power by force and rule over all. I'm not for dictatorships, but we already have too many countries in the world. And provinces and states within these countries. Too many little fiefdoms. Too many wannabe lords. Too many presidents, premiers, prime ministers, governors, chancellors, kings, emperors. Too many parliaments, congresses, too many senators, deputies, represe…

> We'll be traveling through other galaxies

Counterpoint: no we won't lol.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#32

Post by kspacewalk2 »

WaxProlix wrote: post #21
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

It's a bit like blaming the Democrats for the political crisis in the US but I have to ask "what the hell is wrong with Labor?" The Tories have dominated politics in the UK since the later 1970s except for the Blair administration, and Blair was an honorary Tory.

There's something wild going on there, too. Leaked documents have shown how their best chance at real Labour-style governance (Corbyn) was intentionally smeared from within as an antisemite, among other things, in order to torpedo his popularity. Instead, Labour has the hugely ineffectual Tory-esque Keir Starmer now. Feels very much like a managed opposition.

Corbyn seems to have done a fine enough job smearing himself over his long and illustrious career of far-left populism and terrorism apologia. His campaign signed up a lot of fly-by-night party members and was successful in getting him elected party leader, but convincing the general public was far more difficult.

(Part of the answer to why Labour has been out of power for 13 years is the Corbyn disaster, it explains half of that time span).

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#33

Post by thatguy0900 »

Victerius wrote: post #22
actionfromafar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, how?! Currently, it looks further than ever.

I don't see a way to solve humanity's problems with hundreds of governments each pursuing its own agenda.

Humanity's problems just not getting solved, short of a miracle engineering breakthrough, is more likely than all the nuclear states aggreeing to form one government. So here's hoping there is actually an illuminati running everything, I suppose.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#34

Post by api »

pphysch wrote: post #25
throxaway wrote: post #19

I think when discussing this, it should be recognised that there is ample evidence that Russia has worked last several years to undermine the stability of western democracies. Brexit vote and resulting chaos being one glaring result. I am suggesting that we are just starting to understand the magnitude in which Russia has been able to cause havoc in the west by taking advantage of our freedoms. Link: https://en.m.wik…

Despite a 24/7 media campaign to suggest otherwise, there is no proof that Russia actually did this. The first line of your link agrees. I think the relentless scapegoating by Western elite of Russia/China/Iran/COVID/$CURRENT_BOGEYMAN/etc. is the real problem. They are avoiding responsibility for a collapsing system, which is only going to allow that collapse to continue.

Both things can be true to varying degrees. Russian propaganda exists but it wouldn't be nearly as effective if it weren't for our elite fumbling so badly.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#35

Post by swader999 »

abeppu wrote: post #16

> This is the sort of crisis that brings down nations. What does "bring down nations" mean though? Replacing a government? Violent overthrow and then writing an actual constitution? Because a bunch of the challenges being faced would still be issues under any regime right? A different government isn't going to magically get more potatoes this year, or significantly more energy from strained European countries this wi…

Create a crisis, provide a solution. Install bought/captured politicians, perhaps a dash of tyranny, CBDC and social credit for all. Total surveillance and enslavement. It doesn't require violence, people will demand these 'solutions' when they are stressed enough.

Every tyrannical regime in the past had a constitution. Rendered mute by a uni-party system, captured media and judiciary. Now you can add big tech collusion to the fray.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#36

Post by badpun »

paulpauper wrote: post #13

This is why all of these people who are always predicting collapse or crisis keep getting it wrong...the collapse if and when it happens, will not hit the US first...it is other countries instead like the UK, Lebanon, TUrkey, etc. Yes, the US has problems, but we see over and over that elsewhere has worse problems. Even the UK (inflation), Germany (inflation, dependence on Russian nat. gas), Japan (a recent assassina…

Yep, exactly. The US is nowadays Rome, and the Western world is its modern Roman empire. When the actual (Western) Roman empire fell into decline, Rome (the city) was hit last in terms of decline in standards of living. It's the peripheries which got cut off first.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#37

Post by BbzzbB »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #20
reb wrote: post #4

It’s eerie how similar the issues facing western nations are and how intractable the disagreements over solutions have become. Desperate balkanization coming for many, I think.

I always wonder why balkanization is described as "desperate" or some other extremely bad thing.

Because breaking up countries, let alone over fuzzy ethnic lines, is seldom a peaceful process that leads to prosperous smaller countries (over one's lifetime anyway). A most common outcome seems to be violence and war short-mid term followed by poverty and corruption long term.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#38

Post by Victerius »

swader999 wrote: post #27
Victerius wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a way to solve humanity's problems with hundreds of governments each pursuing its own agenda.

Central planning across a large geography failed miserably and killed hundreds of millions in the 20th century. I'll take hundreds of localized solutions/experiments any day thanks.

The United States government has been extremely successful as the central point of authority of the 50 states.

Central planning has been extremely successful in lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty in China, and making China a superpower. And, I shall add, a superpower that's now remained in existence (73 years) longer than the Soviet Union did (70 years).

I'm all for local experimentation, but not for local authority to block progress for all, like countries not doing anything about the climate crisis.

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#39

Post by pphysch »

api wrote: post #34
pphysch wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite a 24/7 media campaign to suggest otherwise, there is no proof that Russia actually did this. The first line of your link agrees. I think the relentless scapegoating by Western elite of Russia/China/Iran/COVID/$CURRENT_BOGEYMAN/etc. is the real problem. They are avoiding responsibility for a collapsing system, which is only going to allow that collapse to continue.

Both things can be true to varying degrees. Russian propaganda exists but it wouldn't be nearly as effective if it weren't for our elite fumbling so badly.

Yes, every important organization (nation, religion, corporation) does PR. Its normal and healthy to have some public image management when competitors may try to destroy your image for their own gain.

This is a far cry from having a coordinated disinformation campaign to cause political instability in a foreign country. The evidence of Russia doing this to any effect with Trump or Brexit is extremely scant and circumstantial. Such a campaign would be massive, well beyond the capacity of a hidden conspiracy. It would involve entire media companies and NGOs. There would be far more smoking-gun evidence than the current standard of "guilt by association with someone who spent some time in Russia".

Re: The gathering crisis in the UK

#40

Post by cowpig »

seibelj wrote: post #7

Green energy (except nuclear) is inefficient, expensive, irregular, and the money for it goes straight to China and developing nations who mine the rare earth elements. Even Germany finally backed off from de-commissioning their last nuclear plants as the Greens realized it was illogical. Need to remove red tape, stop controlling prices, de-regulate business, establish free trade agreements, and do all manner of thin…

> Need to remove red tape, stop controlling prices, de-regulate business, establish free trade agreements, and do all manner of things to increase real productivity and not the government-pretend kind of productivity.

Is there any historical evidence of this approach leading to positive change?

Just theoretically, I don't see it--energy is a public good with tons of externalities (both positive and negative).

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