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I hope Apple never adopts RCS

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Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#31

Post by threeseed »

ale42 wrote: post #18
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

I really hope that interoperability between (some of) these platforms, mandated by EU, will actually come true. Thing is, SMS is ancient technology, but it does work everywhere, on any kind of device, even on the dumbest one. All the other 3-rd party apps are (a) requiring an Internet connection to work, which most people have, but some don't, having limited data plans or prepaid accounts where data is way too expens…

> but some don't

The proportion of people with phone-only plans is very small and getting smaller by the year.

Let's just have an interoperability standard that is data based, encrypted and independent of carriers.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#32

Post by hpaavola »

"RCS embraces the flaws of GSM, and Apple using it would be a step backwards."

Nope. As RCS is better than SMS, adopting it would be a step forward. The whole article can be summed up to "RCS is not perfect, so it should not be used". Which is of course silly as RCS is better than the current option it replaces, SMS.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#33

Post by lotsofpulp »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #19
drawfloat wrote: post #11

Still find it incredible the green/blue bubble thing in the US isn’t a joke.

Apparently teens in the US judge each other by the colour of their message bubbles [0]. I don't know if this is merely immaturity, or sheer vapidness. [0]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-... (paywalled)

I am under the impression teens should be expected to be immature and vapid…because they are teens.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#34

Post by daneel_w »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #19
drawfloat wrote: post #11

Still find it incredible the green/blue bubble thing in the US isn’t a joke.

Apparently teens in the US judge each other by the colour of their message bubbles [0]. I don't know if this is merely immaturity, or sheer vapidness. [0]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-... (paywalled)

It's immaturity, if you will. Wanting to set oneself aside as a bit better than others, and the harsh group mechanics of building constellations with a select few through exclusions of others, is a social behavior of growing up. Almost every kid and teenager will partake in it or at the least experience it.

I don't know child psychology, but if I were to guess it's a manifestation of "survival of the fittest".

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#35

Post by threeseed »

hpaavola wrote: post #32

"RCS embraces the flaws of GSM, and Apple using it would be a step backwards." Nope. As RCS is better than SMS, adopting it would be a step forward. The whole article can be summed up to "RCS is not perfect, so it should not be used". Which is of course silly as RCS is better than the current option it replaces, SMS.

RCS is a step backward.

At least SMS is a standard where as Google has their own proprietary version.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#36

Post by lotsofpulp »

donkeyd wrote: post #21
elashri wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of reason in for many places outside US. There are no unlimited messages plan. edit: people seems to miss that I said that this is only part of the reason not the reason. I also said many places outside the US (not all). So do people down vote because they think that there are only US and EU in the world? I am missing that point.

This may have caused WhatsApp to get big in much of the EU, but by now many European countries also have unlimited text, so it's not the case any longer.

I thought high costs for international SMS and MMS is what caused WhatsApp to explode. I remember it being the first app with great UX for sending and receiving pics/video/contacts, and then they added group messaging which worked great as well.

No spam because you needed SMS text verification, no ads, no login to remember, just all around amazing app at the right place at the right time.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#37

Post by londons_explore »

minimaul wrote: post #23
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

The fragmentation of these third party apps gets frustrating very fast though. I'm in the UK and my work uses Slack and also wants me to use WhatsApp for OOH contact. My friends are mostly on Discord. My family is mostly only available via iMessage. A few of the more privacy conscious use Telegram or Signal. A few of the more OSS conscious use Matrix. Some chat is still on IRC (actually I like that...). Users relying…

> forcing these apps to be able to federate

I predict it'll 'work' so that the companies aren't fined by the EU, but the service will be atrocious.

You'll probably have to jump through a lot of hoops to make it work, and even then you'll probably have to wait 5 minutes for messages to be delivered, have to deal with bugs galore, and have most of the features not work.

"Warning: Sending an animated emoji will eject all non-iMessage users out of this group conversation".

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#38

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

minimaul wrote: post #23
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #4

The SMS/RCS/iMessage/blue bubble-green bubble debate is almost entirely exclusive to the strange market of the US. Almost everywhere else in the world, users have simply adopted a variety of 3rd-party messaging apps that use the phone's Internet rather than GSM connection, like WhatsApp, Telegram, Messenger, Signal, WeChat, etc. EDIT: While I understand the need for a 'universal E2EE messaging standard', we don't hav…

The fragmentation of these third party apps gets frustrating very fast though. I'm in the UK and my work uses Slack and also wants me to use WhatsApp for OOH contact. My friends are mostly on Discord. My family is mostly only available via iMessage. A few of the more privacy conscious use Telegram or Signal. A few of the more OSS conscious use Matrix. Some chat is still on IRC (actually I like that...). Users relying…

> The fragmentation of these third party apps gets frustrating very fast though.

Agreed, although where I live, most people have consolidated on Telegram. WhatsApp was popular about 5 years ago, but its popularity has quickly waned because of how difficult inter-device use is.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#39

Post by throw0101a »

threeseed wrote: post #27
throw0101a wrote: post #13

So those of us who happen to own iPhones, and have friend who have Android devices, and would like to have (e.g.) group chats can go pound sand? Or try to get all of our friends/family to install yet another app? What is the main argument(s?) against implementing RCS? That it doesn't have E2EE? Neither does SMS, so RCS is no worse in that regard, but seems to have some extra nice things.

The reason is that SMS is dying and being replaced by better encrypted clients. There is no point moving to RCS which just prolongs this death and makes the current situation worse since Google has their own proprietary version of RCS.

> The reason is that SMS is dying and being replaced by better encrypted clients.

Each of which is a wall gardened onto itself. So instead of having one app where I can chat, I have App A to talk with Group-of-Friends 1, App B to talk with Group-of-Family/Friends 2, App C…

Thanks, but I'll happily give up E2EE to not have to deal with the above hassle.

At that point I might as well give up on SMS/RCS and go back to only sending e-mails which is an open, federated standard.

> […] and makes the current situation worse since Google has their own proprietary version of RCS.

AFAICT, the only thing "proprietary" about Google's implementation is E2EE: otherwise it's a fairly standard RCS client that can talk to any other RCS client. I'd be happy if Apple did the same thing with iMessage (app): standard SMS/RCS client when sending to non-iMessage people, and 'fancy' client (blue bubbles) between iMesssage users.

Re: I hope Apple never adopts RCS

#40

Post by perryizgr8 »

Since RCS is a chat standard backed by Google, I wonder which company would spend money and time to support it. I guarantee, regardless of adoption, in two years, Google will have killed RCS or gotten out of it, maybe leaving it to carriers.

Google is not in it for the long haul. Companies whose entire modus operandi is providing value to paying customers (e.g. Apple) will do well to steer clear.

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