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Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#31

Post by shrubble »

bombcar wrote: post #7
devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

The idea of a motor on each wheel independent has obviously been considered, but what is often ignored is the sprung vs unsprung weight. You could develop a pretty amazing off-road vehicle with independent electric motors in each wheel, but it would be a relatively bumpy ride.

The Mercedes 300SL, the Gull Wing of 1954, already had inboard-mounted brakes to reduce unpsrung weight. I would assume that any Mercedes engineer would be familiar with the concept...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#32

Post by syzar »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #26
it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

> I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Are you also secretly rooting for yummy foods to uncool while bland foods take their place?

Desiring uncoolness in one area does not imply such a desire in other areas and hypocrisy is not the only reason why this might be the case.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#33

Post by googlryas »

clouddrover wrote: post #27
judge2020 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically all of those are covered under "otherwise has drawbacks they've judged significant", but I think they meant "in the realm of EV performance": the Plaid is still the fastest car you can buy without dropping a half million on a SF90 or even more on a limited-run supercar.

> Technically all of those are covered under "otherwise has drawbacks they've judged significant" Pray tell, what are these significant drawbacks? > the Plaid is still the fastest car you can buy without dropping a half million Nope: https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/19/23312956/lucid-air-sapphi...

According to that article, that car isn't available yet and is only going to made in extremely limited numbers.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#34

Post by it_citizen »

mechanical_bear wrote: post #24
it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

Why?

Climate change reports are all pretty clear we need to move to smaller, less powerful cars to meet our climate pledges. And produce less of them.

I think starting to see cars as a simple mean to go from A to B instead of a symbol of freedom, status or virility would really be a huge win.

I also hope that on the long run it would help more city dwellers accept the idea of sharing cars instead of owning one. Collectively owned self driving cars could really help reshape our cities, reclame the insane amount of space we dedicate to roads and parking spots and funnel money into more public transit.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#35

Post by judge2020 »

clouddrover wrote: post #27
judge2020 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically all of those are covered under "otherwise has drawbacks they've judged significant", but I think they meant "in the realm of EV performance": the Plaid is still the fastest car you can buy without dropping a half million on a SF90 or even more on a limited-run supercar.

> Technically all of those are covered under "otherwise has drawbacks they've judged significant" Pray tell, what are these significant drawbacks? > the Plaid is still the fastest car you can buy without dropping a half million Nope: https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/19/23312956/lucid-air-sapphi...

> Lucid Air Sapphire will be offered as a limited-production model, with deliveries planned in the US and Canada next year. The price is $249,000 USD and $325,000 CAD.

https://www.lucidmotors.com/stories/introducing-sapphire-pin...

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#36

Post by elif »

The perspective of this piece is a little suspicious:

-ferrari still maintain that they will never produce electric cars

-the concept of hub motors is a fad that has come and largely gone. Putting the motors inside the wheels leads to reliability concerns

-motors with smaller diameter will need more power for the same performance of a larger diameter motor, and the battery is the heavy part

Normally each of these i'd let slide as journalist ignorance but the combination makes this read like ICE propaganda to me.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#37

Post by zeusk »

nimbius wrote: post #29
it_citizen wrote: post #20

While I like the technology aspect, I am secretly rooting for expensive cars to become uncool. Small boring self-driving cars, possibly collectively owned instead of big expensive individually owned cars often used as a proof of social status.

call me a skeptic, I've worked in the auto industry as a heavy engine master tech for over 20 years, but the same luxury manufacturers who can't make a v8 that lasts longer than 60k miles without a recall or major defect are not qualified to skip class and start making Ev's. Mercedes rolled out the 250 largely because biturbo has been a loss leading qc dumpster fire for the last decade. Audi can barely handle infotai…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19800220

is it a 7 series or some Japanese SUV?

Also, if you're as experienced as you claim; You'd probably BMW does not make any transmissions. They've forever outsourced that to ZF or Getrag.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#38

Post by throwawaylinux »

it_citizen wrote: post #34
mechanical_bear wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Climate change reports are all pretty clear we need to move to smaller, less powerful cars to meet our climate pledges. And produce less of them. I think starting to see cars as a simple mean to go from A to B instead of a symbol of freedom, status or virility would really be a huge win. I also hope that on the long run it would help more city dwellers accept the idea of sharing cars instead of owning one. Collective…

I don't have a "climate pledge", nor do I need to move to a smaller or less powerful car or demand that anybody else change their lifestyle.

What I will do is keep an eye on what the ultra-rich "experts" who seem to be most concerned about climate change do. When they give up their mansions and yachts and islands and private jets, eat bugs and teleconference to Bilderberg, that's when I might reconsider my lifestyle. Until then the signal from those experts is crystal clear: climate change is a non-issue. And I wouldn't want to risk being an expert-denier.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#39

Post by Smoosh »

clouddrover wrote: post #12
devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

> As a general rule, if Tesla isn't doing it already I suspect it's either not economically feasible, difficult to manufacture, or otherwise has drawbacks they've judged signifigant. That's not a very good rule. There a lots of things Tesla doesn't do. - Tesla doesn't do battery swaps, but NIO does. NIO's done it 10 million times: https://www.nio.com/blog/nio-users-china-have-completed-10-m... - Tesla doesn't do 350…

> And so on

I would really like V2H or V2G but no sign of it from Tesla so far.

Re: Mercedes and Ferrari’s edge in the electric car age: high-end axial motors

#40

Post by alliao »

devnulll wrote: post #4

> Putting a motor on each wheel — or at least one on each axle — could translate into hair-raising EV driving performance. I don't understand this. My Plaid Tesla has a motor on each of the rear axles, and it's direct coupled to the wheel. The already are doing torque vectoring. Like all things in engineering, the trade-off's are critical. This article doesn't go at all into the pros/cons of the approach Tesla (and o…

isn't Rivian shipping already with one motor on each wheel?
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