I still don't understand why people think this will do anything for electric cars. The bottleneck is how long it takes to charge your car. If you have a 60KW/hr pack, you can only charge it so fast with a 110v/20amp jack (for the sake of pie in the sky projections assume 50% charging efficiency between charger and battery). Period the end. you could always do 220v/30amps, or 208v/30amps/3phase. or 440v/1000amps. the tradeoff is in how many idiots electrocute themselves. It never ceases to amaze me how people don't get this simple simple fact. It's like saying that you can fill up a swimming pool faster because you've made a sturdier garden hose.
Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
31–40 of 74 posts
Re: Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
#32I still don't understand why people think this will do anything for electric cars. The bottleneck is how long it takes to charge your car. If you have a 60KW/hr pack, you can only charge it so fast with a 110v/20amp jack (for the sake of pie in the sky projections assume 50% charging efficiency between charger and battery). Period the end. you could always do 220v/30amps, or 208v/30amps/3phase. or 440v/1000amps. the…
That's pretty short-sighted Mike. First, a 10x battery boost would mean you don't have to recharge the car fully over a week.
This is also a boon for battery swapping stations which are bein built in Israel and other places.
Re: Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
#33Seems to me that if this proves out, and can be made affordably, the most exciting application would be electric cars -- no more range penalty vs. gasoline. Anyone know enough to comment on the likely applicability?
Most of the time these battery tech announcements will mention capacity and recharge. They are typically very silent on discharge rate and this announcement is no exception. Discharge rate is an important feature for high load applications like cars. Given that this is still lithium ion I would expect good things but it would be nice to see some high discharge data.
Re: Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
#34I still don't understand why people think this will do anything for electric cars. The bottleneck is how long it takes to charge your car. If you have a 60KW/hr pack, you can only charge it so fast with a 110v/20amp jack (for the sake of pie in the sky projections assume 50% charging efficiency between charger and battery). Period the end. you could always do 220v/30amps, or 208v/30amps/3phase. or 440v/1000amps. the…
That's pretty short-sighted Mike. First, a 10x battery boost would mean you don't have to recharge the car fully over a week. This is also a boon for battery swapping stations which are bein built in Israel and other places.
lol. it's like you're trying to troll me. #5,612,606.
Re: Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
#35… store 10 times more power… …after 150 charge/discharge cycles, is also five times more effective than any lithium-ion battery currently on the market Is this the positive way of saying they lose half of their capacity after 150 cycles? Ten times capacity is certainly a game changer for everything from wireless ear buds to electric cars, but * week-long smartphone batteries within a couple of years* sounds optimisti…
Usual Li-Ion batteries get a bit over 1000 cycles, so if this is 10 times more power, it provides more power for 150 cycles than a normal Li-Ion for its lifetime.
No they don't. Degradation of lithium-ion batteries is a function of temperature, time since manufacture and charge level rather than charge/discharge cycles. If you keep the battery cool and don't discharge it below 20% or so, it will last a very long time. If you keep it hot and constantly do full discharges, it will be dead very quickly.
Re: Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Usual Li-Ion batteries get a bit over 1000 cycles, so if this is 10 times more power, it provides more power for 150 cycles than a normal Li-Ion for its lifetime.
No they don't. Degradation of lithium-ion batteries is a function of temperature, time since manufacture and charge level rather than charge/discharge cycles. If you keep the battery cool and don't discharge it below 20% or so, it will last a very long time. If you keep it hot and constantly do full discharges, it will be dead very quickly.
You need to discharge them really slowly to if you want to keep them cool. So, there is a link between discharging and temperature assuming a high power device.
Re: Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cars currently have $50 toxic batteries, in them and yet the recycling rate is near unity for them. If we can manage to recycle something worth $50, surely we can recycle something that is more valuable.
> If we can manage to recycle something worth $50, surely we can recycle something that is more valuable. That doesn't follow. Lead-acid car batteries are profitable to recycle because of the chemistry costs, not the unit cost of the battery. So, what are the costs of recycling these batteries? (Note that the answer is in terms of $/pound.) How does that compare to the cost of using new materials? (Again, the answer…
Lithium is worth a lot more than lead so unless there is significant reason to think otherwise they are probably worth recycling.
Re: Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
No they don't. Degradation of lithium-ion batteries is a function of temperature, time since manufacture and charge level rather than charge/discharge cycles. If you keep the battery cool and don't discharge it below 20% or so, it will last a very long time. If you keep it hot and constantly do full discharges, it will be dead very quickly.
You need to discharge them really slowly to if you want to keep them cool. So, there is a link between discharging and temperature assuming a high power device.
Liquid cooling for batteries wouldn't be worth it in earbuds, but it probably would in an electric car.
Re: Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
#39Seems to me that if this proves out, and can be made affordably, the most exciting application would be electric cars -- no more range penalty vs. gasoline. Anyone know enough to comment on the likely applicability?
Most of the time these battery tech announcements will mention capacity and recharge. They are typically very silent on discharge rate and this announcement is no exception. Discharge rate is an important feature for high load applications like cars. Given that this is still lithium ion I would expect good things but it would be nice to see some high discharge data.
I was under the impression that discharge rate scaled fairly reliably with recharge rate. Is that not the case?
Re: Graphene improves lithium-ion battery capacity and recharge rate by 10x
#40I still don't understand why people think this will do anything for electric cars. The bottleneck is how long it takes to charge your car. If you have a 60KW/hr pack, you can only charge it so fast with a 110v/20amp jack (for the sake of pie in the sky projections assume 50% charging efficiency between charger and battery). Period the end. you could always do 220v/30amps, or 208v/30amps/3phase. or 440v/1000amps. the…
Most homes have 220v devices that people use safely every day without electrocuting themselves. If your really concerned about how fast they charge just run a second line and wow it's charging twice as fast. On top of that decent charging stations are well over 90% efficient much worse than that and they start dumping a lot of heat which harms the battery. 3 * 220v/50amps * 90% efficiency will fill that 60KW/hr pack right quick.
So sure, it takes a long time to fill the tank using a normal extension cord, but then again most people can't refill their gas powered car at home so it's still a net win.