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Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

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Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#31

Post by thrown_22 »

abadger9 wrote: post #22

I've used Java my entire career and i'm fortunate for it. I appreciate how readable the code is (unlike my experience with Erlang, Haskell, etc), typically i don't have foundational issues in the web framework (once again had some with Haskell). Everything works, if I need to do low latency, there's great libraries and resources, if i need to build a simple internal tool, it can be done effortlessly. I think python i…

>if I need to do low latency

If the JVM is considered low latency I shudder to think what is high latency.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#32

Post by bil7 »

NoSorryCannot wrote: post #10
falcolas wrote: post #5

Java's adequate. It's like a Toyota Corolla (insert your boring car of choice here if you don't feel this one works for the analogy). Not the prettiest, not the fastest, not the most efficient. But it gets you from point A to point B with little fuss or muss. I totally get why companies adopt and standardize on it. Do I use it for personal projects? Nope. Because it's not fun to "drive". For that, I pick the equivale…

Whoever invented the car analogy should pay for what they did.

do you have some other anology we should all switch to? maybe a ferrari level analogy that's way better?

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#33

Post by throwawaymaths »

abadger9 wrote: post #22

I've used Java my entire career and i'm fortunate for it. I appreciate how readable the code is (unlike my experience with Erlang, Haskell, etc), typically i don't have foundational issues in the web framework (once again had some with Haskell). Everything works, if I need to do low latency, there's great libraries and resources, if i need to build a simple internal tool, it can be done effortlessly. I think python i…

This is a matter of preference, I think. As a non-erlang practicioner I find Erlang to be far more readable than Java (which is good, because IMO Erlang authors have a habit of writing spaghetti code that's poorly organized). As a non-practicioner at some point in Java you run into annotations? Pragmas? and you stop being confident that your mental model of the code is correct. When I run into those I throw my hands up and start cursing.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#34

Post by falcolas »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #23
falcolas wrote: post #5

Java's adequate. It's like a Toyota Corolla (insert your boring car of choice here if you don't feel this one works for the analogy). Not the prettiest, not the fastest, not the most efficient. But it gets you from point A to point B with little fuss or muss. I totally get why companies adopt and standardize on it. Do I use it for personal projects? Nope. Because it's not fun to "drive". For that, I pick the equivale…

Corollas don't come with all sorts of weird (now aging) buzzword-driven preferences like nudging you towards xml, factories, etc.

Personal rant: I've never understood the hate towards XML. It's a practical and flexible markup language that does not depend on whitespace or quoting every bloody thing. Plus, every markup language invented since has had to re-invent XML things that, surprise surprise were actually needed. Paths, schemas, comments, etc.

I get frustrated with JSON because of things I could do in XML that I can't do in JSON without breaking the spec. And that doesn't even cover how annoyingly verbose anything done in JSON is.

Anyways.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#35

Post by 5e92cb50239222b »

thrown_22 wrote: post #31
abadger9 wrote: post #22

I've used Java my entire career and i'm fortunate for it. I appreciate how readable the code is (unlike my experience with Erlang, Haskell, etc), typically i don't have foundational issues in the web framework (once again had some with Haskell). Everything works, if I need to do low latency, there's great libraries and resources, if i need to build a simple internal tool, it can be done effortlessly. I think python i…

>if I need to do low latency If the JVM is considered low latency I shudder to think what is high latency.

Java is heavily used in high-frequency trading. I believe it's the most popular language after C++.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#37

Post by yurodivuie »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #18
falcolas wrote: post #5

Java's adequate. It's like a Toyota Corolla (insert your boring car of choice here if you don't feel this one works for the analogy). Not the prettiest, not the fastest, not the most efficient. But it gets you from point A to point B with little fuss or muss. I totally get why companies adopt and standardize on it. Do I use it for personal projects? Nope. Because it's not fun to "drive". For that, I pick the equivale…

What does that make Scala? A RAV4?

Still a Corolla, with left-hand drive and manual transmission.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#38

Post by amusedcyclist »

thrown_22 wrote: post #31
abadger9 wrote: post #22

I've used Java my entire career and i'm fortunate for it. I appreciate how readable the code is (unlike my experience with Erlang, Haskell, etc), typically i don't have foundational issues in the web framework (once again had some with Haskell). Everything works, if I need to do low latency, there's great libraries and resources, if i need to build a simple internal tool, it can be done effortlessly. I think python i…

>if I need to do low latency If the JVM is considered low latency I shudder to think what is high latency.

Depends on the use case, but if you are working on web servers or other long lived processes the JVM is pretty close to native and can even beat native code thanks to JIT compilation.

Re: Don’t call it a comeback: Java is still champ

#40

Post by nix23 »

johnklos wrote: post #25

...and it's still a security nightmare... I think some developers took "write once, run anywhere" as a challenge, which is why I still have to keep virtual machines with ancient Java versions around to configure and use certain remote IP-based KVMs, certain IPMI functions, certain older fibre channel switches, certain poorly thought out IP cameras, and so on.

Just wait until GO has so many years on the back, java is not a "security nightmare" developers/businesses with zero responsibility are.
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