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California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

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Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#31

Post by toolz »

chmod600 wrote: post #26
culi wrote: post #20

Before Tesla came out with autopilot, Google had done extensive user research on "autopilot" cars and found that no matter how many times you tell users that they must be fully attentive, people WILL go on their phones or stop paying attention. It's the entire reason Google didn't go to market with their technology before Tesla Then Musk came along and completely ignored the research (which he must've been really awa…

Are Teslas more lethal per mile than other cars?

I really hope FSD isn't heading down the path of setting a dangerous precedent that tech advancements must be perfect before society utilizes them. We have a technology that we know will reduce death and injury and likely by a drastic margin, but we're not utilizing it because it isn't perfect yet?

Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#32

Post by ra7 »

misiti3780 wrote: post #29
belkinpower wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words have meanings. If you call something “full self-driving” you can’t get upset when people assume it means full self-driving.

So just so I understand, you think there are Tesla owners that think they have Full self driving because the Tesla website calls it FSD?

But why even call it FSD if it's not fully self driving? There's no reason to use a misleading name in the first place.

Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#33

Post by simion314 »

chmod600 wrote: post #26
culi wrote: post #20

Before Tesla came out with autopilot, Google had done extensive user research on "autopilot" cars and found that no matter how many times you tell users that they must be fully attentive, people WILL go on their phones or stop paying attention. It's the entire reason Google didn't go to market with their technology before Tesla Then Musk came along and completely ignored the research (which he must've been really awa…

Are Teslas more lethal per mile than other cars?

We can't know, Tesla is secret about the real data. From what we see in videos where people are testing FSD and the human had to save teh day many times in 30 minutes. So for just that 1 car you would have had 1 death if the human was not there.

IF we would have the number of how many times the driver would have been hurt if he did not take control then we could have a better guess how many kilometers a Tesla would self drive until would kill or hurt you,

Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#34

Post by mikestew »

toolz wrote: post #31
chmod600 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Teslas more lethal per mile than other cars?

I really hope FSD isn't heading down the path of setting a dangerous precedent that tech advancements must be perfect before society utilizes them. We have a technology that we know will reduce death and injury and likely by a drastic margin, but we're not utilizing it because it isn't perfect yet?

...because it isn't perfect yet?

No, because it hasn't been demonstrated to even work as promised, let alone "isn't perfect".

Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#35

Post by toolz »

simion314 wrote: post #33
chmod600 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Teslas more lethal per mile than other cars?

We can't know, Tesla is secret about the real data. From what we see in videos where people are testing FSD and the human had to save teh day many times in 30 minutes. So for just that 1 car you would have had 1 death if the human was not there. IF we would have the number of how many times the driver would have been hurt if he did not take control then we could have a better guess how many kilometers a Tesla would s…

Tesla isn't hiding data, they simply only have autopilot data on highways, which their autopilot data suggests it's safer than human pilots on highways. Which to me suggests we should be putting social effort behind making autopilot (on the highway, at least) the norm.

Perfection is not a requirement for advancement.

Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#36

Post by toolz »

mikestew wrote: post #34
toolz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope FSD isn't heading down the path of setting a dangerous precedent that tech advancements must be perfect before society utilizes them. We have a technology that we know will reduce death and injury and likely by a drastic margin, but we're not utilizing it because it isn't perfect yet?

...because it isn't perfect yet? No, because it hasn't been demonstrated to even work as promised, let alone "isn't perfect".

They release quarterly data that shows it works as promised and is much safer than human drivers on highways.

Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#37

Post by hn_user2 »

inversefft wrote: post #9

I have no issue with the term autopilot. Boeing sells planes with autopilot, no one expects them to be fully autonomous. The FSD name makes more sense for the software they've got in public beta than their current offering. Interestingly the only difference between "enhanced autopilot" and FSD right now is the ability to stop at stop lights.

I don't have a problem with any of the terms personally, because I feel I have a good understanding of what it is actually capable of.

What I think is more important is understanding what the general population of buyers of these cars think it means. Whether they are wrong or right, what they think it means effects how they drive with autopilot on, and whether they are looking ahead or on their phone.

The only real way to know this would be to measure it, and I doubt that is knowledge that Tesla wants to know.

As a side note, the Boeing pilot will spend a great deal of time looking at charts or their company laptop once they are at cruise with their auto-pilot on.

Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#38

Post by HelloMcFly »

misiti3780 wrote: post #29
belkinpower wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words have meanings. If you call something “full self-driving” you can’t get upset when people assume it means full self-driving.

So just so I understand, you think there are Tesla owners that think they have Full self driving because the Tesla website calls it FSD?

I think it's highly likely that someone thinks this, yes.

Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#39

Post by simion314 »

toolz wrote: post #35
simion314 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't know, Tesla is secret about the real data. From what we see in videos where people are testing FSD and the human had to save teh day many times in 30 minutes. So for just that 1 car you would have had 1 death if the human was not there. IF we would have the number of how many times the driver would have been hurt if he did not take control then we could have a better guess how many kilometers a Tesla would s…

Tesla isn't hiding data, they simply only have autopilot data on highways, which their autopilot data suggests it's safer than human pilots on highways. Which to me suggests we should be putting social effort behind making autopilot (on the highway, at least) the norm. Perfection is not a requirement for advancement.

The issue is that you have fanboys that are idiots and they will conclude this Human + Autopilot > Human => (implies) AI is better then human FSD > Autopilot

Conclusion FSD is better then humans.

Nobody said that installing a good drive assistant is less safe, the issue is with idiots using this stats to imply the AI itself is better then human drivers wich is a bad conclusion to draw from this.

To prove FSD is better then humans, send a Tesla from A to B and note hoe many kilometers until it screws up. Repeat 1000 times then do the same experiment with 1000 humans. Don't forget to repeat after each update.

Re: California DMV accuses Tesla of making false claims about Autopilot and FSD

#40

Post by toolz »

simion314 wrote: post #39
toolz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla isn't hiding data, they simply only have autopilot data on highways, which their autopilot data suggests it's safer than human pilots on highways. Which to me suggests we should be putting social effort behind making autopilot (on the highway, at least) the norm. Perfection is not a requirement for advancement.

The issue is that you have fanboys that are idiots and they will conclude this Human + Autopilot > Human => (implies) AI is better then human FSD > Autopilot Conclusion FSD is better then humans. Nobody said that installing a good drive assistant is less safe, the issue is with idiots using this stats to imply the AI itself is better then human drivers wich is a bad conclusion to draw from this. To prove FSD is bette…

They already have a safety score you have to maintain in order to qualify for FSD beta, so this seems like an imagined non-issue. Simply don't allow FSD for people who drive recklessly.
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