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Understanding Jane Street

thediff.co

31–40 of 392 posts

Re: Understanding Jane Street

#31

What tax do these type of companies pay? I'm gonna guess they aren't paying the "retail" short term capital gain tax.

Yes, they pay short term capital gains taxed as ordinary income for equities. For futures they pay a blended 60/40 long-term/short-term rate, since all the futures trading is taxed that way (including for retail)

Re: Understanding Jane Street

#32
Something I don’t understand:

Why haven’t their gains been arbitraged away? Conceptually what they do seems simple enough; and presumably you just need capital to do it. Hell, their own former employees could theoretically compete against them - as could many traders who would pay to learn those strategies.

So why are they still making so much? I don’t understand why their “advantage” hasn’t been arbitrated away into a commodity business.

Re: Understanding Jane Street

#33

1. It's realllyyyy hard to get hired. So many stories are along the lines of "I applied...blah blah... didn't get in" 2. You have to solve over the phone very hard math questions to make it past the initial screening stage. I dunno what comes after that. The highest-stakes gambling events in the world are typically very discreet, invite-only affairs. One that might be close to the top in terms of available winnings h…

So you are doubling your money each year? Do you have a forward strategy to keep that up? Looking for people with good track records is a terrible way to choose traders. See: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zv-3EfC17Rc Tldw: meets a person, picks 5 horse winners, gets then to invest. How did he pick 5 winners? Emails 1000s of people, using a permutation per person. The person who sees the 5 wins thinks he has a system.…

It depends if you are getting new money or not. For a lump sum investment, depending on market cycles it's possible to structure the trade to optimize returns. If you assume that bear markets are every 6 years , there are certain simple integrals for computing this in which you input a certain starting capital and then a certain risk -free rate and then the capital is split between two assets like cash and stocks. When the bear market is triggered, you switch from cash to stock. [0]

But all you need is a bull market to 50-100x your money with 3x funds https://i.imgur.com/PF7XEaR.jpg

If 7/10 past decades are a bull market then odds are you will make good money.

Market neutral strategies are different though.

[0]

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3000*%28%28integrate+1....

A calculation i ran to answer this problem shows that if you have $10k and split $3k of into cash that yields 3%/year and the $7k is put into TQQQ, which generates a long-term CAGR of 53%/year, approximates the actual returns of TQQQ .

So this turns the $10k into $1.5 million over 12 years, which is close to the actual result (100% or $10k invested in TQQQ at the start), assuming a crash happens every 8 years (modeled by exponential distribution and based on empirical evidence going back the past 100 years) and and then after TQQQ falls about 70% the $3k cash is then put into tqqq. After crashing, the above formula assumes that TQQQ races higher in order to maintain it's long-term CAGR, so buying the dip helps a lot.

So generally speaking, keeping 30% in cash/bonds equals the result of 100% fully invested if you buy the dip. The downside is if there is no crash you will lag.

There are various tweaks like above to improve risk adjusted returns. It's not that hard to do if you have a basic knowledge of calc and stats.

Re: Understanding Jane Street

#34
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you aren't really interested in a rational discussion by the second half of your post, but the typical arguments (incl in the post) for are that market makers reduce inefficiencies in the market & provide liquidity that significantly reduces the bar (i.e. make trading cheaper) for retail investors (like you or me) to trade. I think it is generally accepted that society does benefit from a modern and ef…

I don't do stock market trading, but even those who do that I know of, are doing so via companies such as: Robin Hood, E-Trade, Fidelity, Charles Schwab, Vanguard... Are these "market makers" working behind the scenes to facilitate the operation of those retail facing companies? Is Black Rock buying all the real estate also good for (potential) retail investors like me? Because it's starting to feel like we're being…

> I don't do stock market trading

You probably do, indirectly through an agency agreement, for example a pension fund that manages your money. Or even whenever you just buy an ETF to invest. The costs you're indirectly paying are lower due to the newer generation of market makers that have reduced transaction costs for you.

> Is Black Rock buying all the real estate also good for (potential) retail investors like me?

Investing in real estate for years is not related to market making stocks with a holding period of 5 minutes.

Re: Understanding Jane Street

#37
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, what do you do for society?

At my job? I take food ingredients and perform some manual manipulation to arrange them into enjoyable edible form (although the natural gas powered grill and the electric element powered heating elements, via cooking oil perform the bulk of the "work" in terms of watt-hours), and contribute to the maintenence of the facility and equipment that allows that to happen. Per shift (along with 1-4 coworkers) I think I am…

No post body was provided.

Re: Understanding Jane Street

#38
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, what do you do for society?

At my job? I take food ingredients and perform some manual manipulation to arrange them into enjoyable edible form (although the natural gas powered grill and the electric element powered heating elements, via cooking oil perform the bulk of the "work" in terms of watt-hours), and contribute to the maintenence of the facility and equipment that allows that to happen. Per shift (along with 1-4 coworkers) I think I am…

[deleted]

Re: Understanding Jane Street

#39

Something I don’t understand: Why haven’t their gains been arbitraged away? Conceptually what they do seems simple enough; and presumably you just need capital to do it. Hell, their own former employees could theoretically compete against them - as could many traders who would pay to learn those strategies. So why are they still making so much? I don’t understand why their “advantage” hasn’t been arbitrated away into…

At least on the quant side, I think the typical sentiment is that most researchers aren't interested in ops / developing infrastructure / curating datasets.

Re: Understanding Jane Street

#40

Sooooo hard to get hired here. I’m convinced it’s impossible without a referral or something

The interviews are definitely hard, but I can confirm the recruiters will reach out to you directly if they find your profile interesting.
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