What happened to "asking for help"? • Hacker News Board

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#31

Post by scott_s » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 6:46 PM UTC

beder wrote: post #16

We just had this problem. Someone posted a 1-star review on the App Store saying: > I create puzzles under the username: [---]. The editor is designed to allow you to upload an increasing number of puzzles as a reward for earning high ratings on those puzzles you've created so far. However, if the rating drops, the puzzles you can upload may actually drop. This is lame and unfair. Numerous times I've trashed a puzzle…

Don't look at it as a threat, because I don't think the user intended it as one. He's not saying "Fix this bug or else I will stop playing." He's saying "Not fixing this bug will cause me to stop playing."

As for the rating, he's saying that this bug is so bad that it kills the entire experience for him. This is how people react to things they don't like: if they enjoy something for 9 hours and absolutely hate the 10th hour, most people will just say they hate it.

As for contacting you first, how easy is it for him to contact you? Did you say anywhere in the game that you all are happy to hear suggestions for improving the game? Also remember that for most users, the App Store is the only place they will interact with you. That's the model. Even if you had said in the game itself that you welcome suggestions and how to reach you, that may not be how users think about you and your game.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#32

Post by TylerE » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

ericdykstra wrote: post #10

alex_c wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the sheer number of inane "reviews" with bizarre complaints, I think the sad truth is that most of them do come from real users.

I saw an absolutely excellent Japanese app that was at 3.5 stars because a bunch of people 1-starred it for not being in English.

Is that really unfair though? Was it made clear on the product page that it was not i18n?

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#33

Post by jvandenbroeck » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 7:01 PM UTC

It should be a rule in every company "don't blame the user"; if they don't contact you with their problems, it's _your_ task to let them contact you. Put a big "contact" button in your app, make it easier to give them direct feedback to you instead of in the app store.

And, obviously, don't release software that's not ready for production. The mindset "we'll just release without proper testing, the users will point out the bugs" - is so 1995

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#34

Post by droithomme » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 7:02 PM UTC

I have to use that sort of feedback sometimes myself.

Here's an example. Recently I tried a demo version of an upgrade to a program I already own. Certain things were broken that used to work fine. The only support allowed is to sign into my account on their website and use a feedback form. Email support is not allowed, nor is there a product forum. When I filled in the form it told me that I was not a registered user of version 2, therefore support was not available. So then I went and wrote a scathing public review advising people to avoid the product for specific reasons.

Compare that to another product I have and seldom use which I also wanted to check the upgrade out. I tried the demo, and there were essential features missing. I emailed the developer using the link in the program and explained myself. He wrote back saying that feature would be added in version 3 and I could upgrade 1 to 3 when it comes and skip 2, no problem. And so that was the end of it for now.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#35

Post by dman » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 7:06 PM UTC

ctdonath wrote: post #29

Funny the article never addresses "they don't ask for help because either there's nobody to talk to or nobody who isn't reading from an inapplicable script." After that becomes the dominant customer support experience, seems the only solution is fling bad vibes into the ether[net] and buy a different product. You know the drill. My obligatory anecdote: bought a popular notebook from a big name computer company. Calle…

Sometimes doing things right means bumping the price up which for some reason companies are unwilling to do. Apple gets this very right in my opinion. Here is an anecdote about HP. If you buy HP elitebooks which cost > $1000 you get 3 years of warranty with shipping paid both ways for free. On top of that you get 24/7 access to enterprise level support. On a few occasions HP has overnighted me parts when I have needed them. On the other hand I have bought HP consumer line laptops which dont come with support or 3 year warranty by default and my experience has been horrible. In other words consumers need to stop buying the cheapest provider.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#36

Post by DanBC » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 7:20 PM UTC

o1iver wrote: post #30

I think one of the problems may be that people dealing with AppStore or Android Market customers are not realizing that they are dealing with a different kind of user group. One cannot compare the feedback that HN users (developers/advanced-users/early-adopters) give, with the responses from your average iPhone user. He doesn't understand how complex a piece of software may be. There is probably an expectation that e…

> There is probably an expectation that even a free app should work perfectly well.

I'm disappointed that this appears to be an unreasonable expectation.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#37

Post by dcminter » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 7:47 PM UTC

gaustin wrote: post #11

wccrawford wrote: post #2

The problem is the normal response to their questions. Most companies, or even just people, will respond negatively to bug reports, especially if they aren't good reports. This has trained the users that they shouldn't bother asking. Instead, they do what gets them results: They complain publicly. See, you can't ignore them if they're speaking publicly. Everyone else gets to see the problem and response, or lack ther…

It's also quicker, easier and more effective than navigating most companies' support tools. I don't want to spend half an hour or more registering, confirming and entering a bug report that will most likely be ignored.* * A company taking reports seriously in a visible way is a rare occurrence in my experience.

It's the ignoring not the complexity that's frustrating. I'm suffering from an annoying bug in Google Groups. I've raised it a few times and it disappears into the void. Next time there's a bug, even if it's serious, will I bother? Probably not - my expectations are set.

-- (Edit)

Incidentally, for software issues this makes a public bug tracker something of a marketing tool. Even knowing my bug rather than lost without trace would be an improvement.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#38

Post by beder » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 8:21 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #27

beder wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that, and it's happened to me a few times also. But I still feel like the first response, if it's possible, should be an email. We're just a couple of guys, and both our website and our game's credits make it clear that we're not a major faceless company. I suppose people are conditioned by large companies ignoring them, so I hope that the proliferation of indie developers in the App Store can reconditio…

For your company, that may be the right way to go. But people don't know that. All they know is that 90% of the time, their time and money is wasted if they go that route. So they take the shortcut. Once you have a good rep with a customer, you can bet they'll do it your way, because that then becomes the best way for them. The problem is that you have to get a rep with that customer first. That usually happens by ha…

There is a touch arcade thread that people occasionally visit, but most of our contact with our users is through email. We're planning to add a direct email link in our "about" page in the game (we already have a link to our website), so hopefully that will make it easier for people to contact us.

(We readily admit that we're pretty bad at forming a community. This is a spare-time thing for both of us, and neither of us uses twitter, facebook, or really any social service, much personally, so we feel a little like fish out of water when it comes to the social aspect of the game. We have a level editor, but no way for people to share levels outside of the game itself, and no way for people to talk about levels they make. We're getting there...)

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#39

Post by georgieporgie » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 8:23 PM UTC

I say it's partly due to Google's record of pushing customer service to the bottom of the priority list, but it's also because we're getting the "unwashed masses" online now. Everyday people are now online, have smart phones, and are purchasing apps. They don't know what a bug report is. They may not even know what good customer service is. They don't want to spend their time and mobile minutes/data on helping you fix your product. They just want things to work.

Re: What happened to "asking for help"?

#40

Post by agscala » Wed, Nov 09, 2011, 8:30 PM UTC

georgieporgie wrote: post #39

I say it's partly due to Google's record of pushing customer service to the bottom of the priority list, but it's also because we're getting the "unwashed masses" online now. Everyday people are now online, have smart phones, and are purchasing apps. They don't know what a bug report is. They may not even know what good customer service is. They don't want to spend their time and mobile minutes/data on helping you fi…

These new users probably carry their expectations from the real world to the internet as well. If some merchandise from a store isn't good, you don't appeal to the company who produces it, you simply tell other people your negative experience with the product and encourage everyone to avoid it, just like what's happening on these app stores.