Engineer turned programmer in the UK. I put the salary discrepancy down to the ease with which I can move jobs. In programming I can bounce around different companies every couple of years in the same city. In engineering things are so frequently sub-industry and even employer specific. If you’re the only person that can operate a company’s machinery that’s great, but if that machinery is unique to that company that doesn’t mean you can get employment elsewhere.
Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
31–40 of 536 posts
Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Profit margin. It's all profit margin. Software is reliably >25%, where physical manufacturing is in the single digits.
But the question is why? Shouldn’t there be the same race to single digit margins in software as well?
I think you're right.
It's my suspicion that eventually software engineers will be paid the same as copy writers and scientists. But not yet.
Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
#33I loved tinkering with electronics when I was younger - still do to a smaller degree. I built my first computer by fixing some blown capacitors on a motherboard I found in the trash. Back in the day, lots of products came with schematics, now you might get a lawsuit if you dare to take something apart. It was way easier to take apart and tweak through hole components too - now everything is surface mount or on chip a…
I find SMT easier than through-hole. And I say B.S. to your line of "rewire a stereo to broadcast instead of receive". There's very little commonality between a stereo and a Transmitter. Whatever, there are still thousands of Hams building Transmitters.
Don’t know what to tell you other than I did. It only would broadcast around the house and maybe a few houses down.
Here is someone else doing it as well: https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=27&v=AudEdHpXTi4&f...
Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
#34I loved tinkering with electronics when I was younger - still do to a smaller degree. I built my first computer by fixing some blown capacitors on a motherboard I found in the trash. Back in the day, lots of products came with schematics, now you might get a lawsuit if you dare to take something apart. It was way easier to take apart and tweak through hole components too - now everything is surface mount or on chip a…
Surface mount isn't that big of a deal. A cheap hot air gun, a soldering iron, flux, and some solder paste are all you need to work with most BGAs, QFN, and other modern packages. PCB prototype manufacturing has never been cheaper thanks to companies like JLCPCB. With all the fantastic learning material on YouTube, open source tools like KiCad, and inexpensive chinese test equipment, the kids these days can do WAY mo…
But, I mean, you could get by with just a $10 soldering iron from RadioShack. It’s just harder to get into and tinker with is my point - which I think you just supported?
Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Profit margin. It's all profit margin. Software is reliably >25%, where physical manufacturing is in the single digits.
But the question is why? Shouldn’t there be the same race to single digit margins in software as well?
The distribution cost of selling software is far lower than selling a physical product. For example, to manufacture and sell cars, you currently have to worry about supply chain considerations and chip shortages. You don't need to worry about this to sell software to an interested purchaser.
Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
#36If there's a problem, then companies will pay out money. If companies aren't paying out money, is there really a problem?
Given that, it sounds like students are making a rational economic choice to avoid an underpaid profession.
Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
But the question is why? Shouldn’t there be the same race to single digit margins in software as well?
I think you're right. It's my suspicion that eventually software engineers will be paid the same as copy writers and scientists. But not yet.
I was initially going to disagree that copywriters get paid in the same range as scientists, but the numbers in the US are roughly similar from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and Indeed.
-Indeed average copywriter annual pay [0] is $54,998 USD, versus a staff scientist's [1] at $69,091 USD
-BLS median copywriter pay for 2021 [2] was $69,510 USD, versus a medical scientist's [3] at $95,310 USD
I'm surprised that the median annual salary difference is only roughly $15,000 to $25,000 USD in favor of working as a scientist, considering the additional years doing a Master's/PhD, whereas copywriter jobs often don't need even a Bachelor's. In addition, I would've guessed that the median copywriter salary would have been far lower, as my perception was that there is a far greater supply of candidates for copywriter jobs than scientist jobs in the US (maybe this is offset by fewer scientist positions?). Alternatively, maybe the numbers are missing important contextual information in some way.
[0] https://www.indeed.com/career/copywriter/salaries
[1] https://www.indeed.com/career/staff-scientist/salaries
[2] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/media-and-communication/writers-and-...
[3] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/med...
Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
#38Its the same problem everywhere now. Pay people what their skills are worth, or they'll walk and your business will go under. I really have no respect for margins or operating expenses, or the executives and government officials that, until now, have taken advantage of the working classes. According to the free market rules, any business which cannot sustain itself and its employees should fail. So, EE, buckle-up, things just got that difficult and you're in for some rough times unless you can start paying people what they're worth.
Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
#39I moved into IT from "formal" engineering and its always frustrated me that a job that involves working on extremely expensive engines using upper level college math gets paid almost nothing compared to people who change colors on a webpage every once in a while. I've been on floors where multi-million dollar pieces of equipment are used to produce parts with obscene levels of precision being used by expert machinist…
> It makes no sense. Why is web software so easy to make money in? Why do we value hard engineering so little?
ZIRP, and the VC ecosystem, FAANG stock bubble, EBITDA-creative accounted IPOs, etc. that grew up around it, are a helluva an alphabet soup:
> why do companies do mental gymnastics to call themselves a tech company. It’s because venture as an asset class traditionally invested in technology because that is what presented the growth and return characteristics that matched their risk profile. So you try to call a desk rental or mattress seller a tech company.
> Then, for the companies that attracted the money had to spend it. Salaries inflate. Cultures change. Consumers are subsidized. Sure, some technology is created, but overall, nothing operates as it would without that thirsty capital. It changes the economics for competitors that do not welcome in the dollars.
Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems
#40PhD in EE. Moved to software for better pay and more job openings. Now I optimize button colors.