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Against Food

jayriverlong.substack.com

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Re: Against Food

#31

Post by cattown »

A lot of what we call "human intelligence" and "consciousness" derives directly from the fact that we live in bodies made of meat which we have to constantly eat food to maintain. Our perception of time, the spectrum of colors we see with our eyes, the range of flavors and scents we can detect, our deepest yearnings and compulsions. All of these are optimized toward finding food and eating it. It is both one of our most basic functions and one of the highest joys.

What else does this guy have going on that's so important?

Re: Against Food

#32

Post by riverlong »

carbadtraingood wrote: post #13

This reads like a person who has yet to come to a full understanding of what it means to be human. I was with them years ago, food is a chemical input to power the machine that is my body. As I've grown older, however, I've changed my thoughts on it. Food is a mechanism by which we express ourselves. It's fundamentally creative. It's a means to share our culture, and it connects us to our history. Pizza is as unique…

Sure, food is a way of sharing cultures and connecting to some common history -- I agree with you that these are all means of self-expression and connection -- but I'm not really interested in this mode of expression.

And for most other parts of life, that's a legitimate position and you're allowed to opt out. Don't like musicals? Don't watch them. There are lots of things from which people derive emotional, cultural, community and individual value -- and where other people choose not to participate, and that's broadly seen as fine.

But food is in a different, much more oppressive position: I'm not allowed to opt out. I am forced to participate, to some extent by cultural forces, and more broadly by the primitive cravings of my body. And the fact that I don't have much choice about participation is a fact that I do not like.

Re: Against Food

#33

Post by kijin »

carbadtraingood wrote: post #13

This reads like a person who has yet to come to a full understanding of what it means to be human. I was with them years ago, food is a chemical input to power the machine that is my body. As I've grown older, however, I've changed my thoughts on it. Food is a mechanism by which we express ourselves. It's fundamentally creative. It's a means to share our culture, and it connects us to our history. Pizza is as unique…

Unfortunately, modern mass production and mass consumption has detached us from a lot of the nuances you would like to see in food.

We just chug down a cheeseburger, one of the millions of identical cheeseburgers consumed every day. We don't care what's in the patty. We don't care how the cheese was made. It all arrives at the local McD's in sterile packages wrapped in plastic. This is not the sandwich that grandma used to make, with a touch of her secret sauce. This isn't even the junk food that your parents allowed every once in a while if you ate your veggies. We feel no connection with the person across the restaurant who is chomping on the same cheeseburger. There's no community here, nor context, only consumption.

The less we get involved in preparing our own food, the more people will naturally feel like OP.

Re: Against Food

#34

Post by bm3719 »

This is not going to be a popular opinion among any group of randomly selected humans, since the majority of them will necessarily be willing participants in those same activities. However, it's hard to argue against this point without resorting to emotionalism or submission to primal urges. Though I might suggest that the author also turn the same criticism against other basal compulsions, like his use of dating apps.

Regarding food specifically, I've had this same notion many times and was an early Soylent adopter as a result. I still purchase its powder and target a 25% diet of Soylent. However, I also increased food's overall influence on my life by starting a garden and trying to raise as much of my own food as possible. I'd say there's other benefits to that; far too numerous to list here. The dishes I make from garden veggies are mostly pretty boring though. One might think of this as trading experience for assurance of origin, and the various benefits thereof. Something one might want to consider if their living conditions permit.

Re: Against Food

#35

Post by carbadtraingood »

11235813213455 wrote: post #27
carbadtraingood wrote: post #13

This reads like a person who has yet to come to a full understanding of what it means to be human. I was with them years ago, food is a chemical input to power the machine that is my body. As I've grown older, however, I've changed my thoughts on it. Food is a mechanism by which we express ourselves. It's fundamentally creative. It's a means to share our culture, and it connects us to our history. Pizza is as unique…

I appreciate so much eating alone in the calm, but I'm not asocial. To me it's more respectful for the food, because you can focus on it fully, chew and not talk, digest well, respect more your own rhythm and needs. Eating shouldn't be something recreative

> Eating shouldn't be something recreative.

What. Recreation is anything you do for enjoyment, whether eating alone or with others.

But also, saying you shouldn't use food as recreation ignores millennia of human history, culture, and biology...

Re: Against Food

#36

Post by carbadtraingood »

layer8 wrote: post #25
carbadtraingood wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's myopic, though. Or perhaps not yet fully formed or juvenile. Food is so essential to how we as a species express ourselves. Does this person hate music too? What about works of fiction? Surely food is just as much a creative cultural touchstone as those are?

You can choose to concern or not concern yourself with music, fiction, other forms of cultural expression, and how often. And people do that, according to their inclinations. But with food you do not have that choice, you have to eat, and you have to do it more or less daily. It’s an imposition rather than a free choice based on your interests. Suppose you’d have to read (say) 50 pages of fiction each day or else you…

You can elect to eat the same things every day if you want. There are inexpensive and really available foods that aren't incompatible with doing other stuff. You can make it pretty much automatic. Not quite as automatic as breathing, but pretty dang close.

Re: Against Food

#37

Post by layer8 »

scottmsul wrote: post #11

I've been cooking a lot more recently and it's one of the most enjoyable parts of my day. There's nothing more satisfying than grilling a steak to the perfect amount of doneness, or tossing a bunch of aromatic spices into a pasta sauce whose scent fills the room. At the end of it I feel like I accomplished something productive and I get to eat something delicious that I crafted to my own taste. I've also had way more…

One could rewrite your comment and make it about how playing an instrument has become the most enjoyable part of your day, how it makes you feel productive and how it lets you play the music you like instead of listening to junk mainstream pop. The difference is that eating is an externally imposed necessity, not a hobby or an occupation one is free to choose and can stop at any time if one gets tired of it.

Re: Against Food

#38

Post by carbadtraingood »

dazc wrote: post #30
carbadtraingood wrote: post #13

This reads like a person who has yet to come to a full understanding of what it means to be human. I was with them years ago, food is a chemical input to power the machine that is my body. As I've grown older, however, I've changed my thoughts on it. Food is a mechanism by which we express ourselves. It's fundamentally creative. It's a means to share our culture, and it connects us to our history. Pizza is as unique…

> To try and reduce eating to something we have to do misses the immense emotional, cultural, community, and individual value we derive from it. OK, but what about the people who's enjoyment of food leads to ill health, loneliness and misery? It's great that you can derive such pleasure from a basic human need but the abundance of cheap and readily available food has a downside too.

Abundance sand availability of food isn't the problem so much as what we've done with that abundance. If we were producing cheap, plant based healthy meals with balanced nutrition at low cost, things would generally be fine.

Re: Against Food

#39

Post by carbadtraingood »

kijin wrote: post #33
carbadtraingood wrote: post #13

This reads like a person who has yet to come to a full understanding of what it means to be human. I was with them years ago, food is a chemical input to power the machine that is my body. As I've grown older, however, I've changed my thoughts on it. Food is a mechanism by which we express ourselves. It's fundamentally creative. It's a means to share our culture, and it connects us to our history. Pizza is as unique…

Unfortunately, modern mass production and mass consumption has detached us from a lot of the nuances you would like to see in food. We just chug down a cheeseburger, one of the millions of identical cheeseburgers consumed every day. We don't care what's in the patty. We don't care how the cheese was made. It all arrives at the local McD's in sterile packages wrapped in plastic. This is not the sandwich that grandma u…

Alienation is a problem. But it's not a problem unique to food.

Yes, it's very obvious in food, but I think what you are describing is a symptom, not a cause.

Solve the causes of alienation, solve the food consumption problem.

Re: Against Food

#40

Post by bioemerl »

riverlong wrote: post #29
deeg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The author's next blog should be about eliminating his basic sensory need for sex.

Been there, to some extent already: https://jayriverlong.github.io/2021/11/25/pornography.html

To sum up the weird way that we all watch a ton of porn but don't talk about it, sex spreads disease and risks childbirth.

Reading doesn't.

Because it is so dangerous it becomes a taboo thing, it can't be public and widespread otherwise it would cause huge damage. So it's kept where it is safe, behind closed doors and between relatively small numbers of individuals that you don't end up with is massive web of connections that links all of society together.

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