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Lin Zexu's Letter to Queen Victoria (1839)

cyber.harvard.edu

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Re: Lin Zexu's Letter to Queen Victoria (1839)

#31

Post by baybal2 »

ginko wrote: post #25
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Qing were originally Manchu invaders. And yes, the Qing empire is still viewed by many in China to be illegitimate.

Which is what I find strange about the Century of Humiliation. Why is China losing a minor war that killed a couple thousand Chinese soldiers a great humiliation while getting outright conquered at least twice (once by the Mongols and once by the Manchu) isn't? Tens of millions of Chinese died during the Manchu invasion of China. The Qing forced every Han Chinese male to shave their forehead and wear a queue on the t…

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Re: Lin Zexu's Letter to Queen Victoria (1839)

#33

Post by thematrixturtle »

bshepard wrote: post #10
Hayvok wrote: post #6

And queue the first Opium War. The Chinese did indeed start a crackdown on opium trade after this, including sending troops to seize warehouses full of it. This action sparked off the first Opium War with Britian, and kicking off the so-called Chinese “Century of Humiliation”.

It is important to stress that China was ruled, at the time, by a government that was widely seen as "Nonchinese" -- this sense of external rule surely had a great deal to do with the emergence of mass addiction, as the Ching state that imposed the laws had serious legitimacy issues (and would collapse less than a century later.)

The Manchu were not Han, but they were Chinese in a broader sense: they've lived for centuries in what is now considered Chinese territory, and by the 19th century they were already assimilated to such an extent that most Manchus spoke Chinese, not Manchu. Today there are still ~10 million Manchus in China, but virtually none speak the language anymore. (Admittedly this is in part because in the early days of Communist China it was not a great idea to show any traces of potentially reactionary Manchu heritage.)

Re: Lin Zexu's Letter to Queen Victoria (1839)

#34

Post by dash2 »

skrebbel wrote: post #30
bshepard wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is important to stress that China was ruled, at the time, by a government that was widely seen as "Nonchinese" -- this sense of external rule surely had a great deal to do with the emergence of mass addiction, as the Ching state that imposed the laws had serious legitimacy issues (and would collapse less than a century later.)

To be frank, it's clear the Brits were the baddies here. They used guns to force a state that had banned terrible drugs to unban it. Whether that state was totally nice or democratic or "Chinese" or whatever value you cherish, is besides the point. It does not legitimize any of what GB did during either Opium War, and therefore I disagree that it's "important to stress".

Some people think banning drugs is a bad idea, and that it's better to allow free trade.

A good response to that would be, "yeah, but it was for the Chinese to make their minds up about that, not the British!"

And a good response to that might be: "when you say the Chinese made their minds up, are you talking about a democratic process?"

Re: Lin Zexu's Letter to Queen Victoria (1839)

#38

Post by artandlol »

bshepard wrote: post #8

One thing to keep in mind is that the Ching government had already launched an opium war before the British began their narcopolitics. This is from P.E Caquet's "Opium's Orphans" “n the leafy town of Taiyu, Shanxi, an inland Chinese province southwest of Beijing, the district magistrate Chen Lihe had a stele put up for public display. The date was 1817 and, four years earlier, the emperor had issued a raft of regulat…

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Re: Lin Zexu's Letter to Queen Victoria (1839)

#39

Post by artandlol »

ginko wrote: post #25
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Qing were originally Manchu invaders. And yes, the Qing empire is still viewed by many in China to be illegitimate.

Which is what I find strange about the Century of Humiliation. Why is China losing a minor war that killed a couple thousand Chinese soldiers a great humiliation while getting outright conquered at least twice (once by the Mongols and once by the Manchu) isn't? Tens of millions of Chinese died during the Manchu invasion of China. The Qing forced every Han Chinese male to shave their forehead and wear a queue on the t…

No post body was provided.

Re: Lin Zexu's Letter to Queen Victoria (1839)

#40

Post by artandlol »

cosmojulis wrote: post #15

Chinese court rejects Canadian’s appeal against death sentence for drug smuggling https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/10/china/china-robert-schellenbe... Singapore executes disabled Malaysian convicted in drug case https://www.npr.org/2022/04/27/1094965375/singapore-executes...

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