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Irwin – the protector of Lichess from all chess players villainous

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Re: Irwin – the protector of Lichess from all chess players villainous

#31

Post by CSMastermind »

timetraveller26 wrote: post #15
CSSer wrote: post #14

I’ve seen a video of Magnus Carlsen playing on Lichess before. Does Irwin ever accidentally flag him or people like him? Do these sorts of folks have to be verified in some fashion?

Not lichess, but Alireza Firouzja (World Rank #3) was banned from chess.com when he was younger. It was some time ago so probably their cheat engine detection, and also lichess's should give less false positives.

> Not lichess, but Alireza Firouzja (World Rank #3) was banned from chess.com when he was younger.

This has turned into a bit of an urban legend. The automated system flagged him based on both his rapid rise in rating and reports from several verified titled players.

On inspection by a human, he was cleared.

Danny exaggerates when he tells the story cause it's a funny anecdote.

This was also a very old version of the anti-cheat like you mentioned. Personally, part of the reason I prefer chess.com is their much better cheat detection than Lichess.

Re: Irwin – the protector of Lichess from all chess players villainous

#32

Post by mlyle »

alar44 wrote: post #6
DJBunnies wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you could clarify what you mean by cheating?

Probably isn't very good and chalks it up to cheating. Chess takes years to get good at. It's a slow slow grind.

Playing people who take 10 seconds every move— whether an obvious “only move” or the most complicated situations… and that pick the move that stockfish makes almost all of the time… are cheating.

Re: Irwin – the protector of Lichess from all chess players villainous

#33

Post by synu »

hgazx wrote: post #30
Snowflame wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trolling? No it isn't? If nothing else, the time issue is a huge one. Cheaters have very consistent seconds-per-move while actual masters make obvious moves instantly and pause on tougher moves.

I suppose that only completely newbie cheaters would think of taking the same amount of time to make each move. It’s like the first rule of pretending to be a human: add a random delay to all of your actions.

In general you’re right, but there are some tells because humans don’t have a random delay. It’s connected with the complexity (from the perspective of how humans think, which is different from engine calculation) of the position. One of the things that makes cheaters stand out is they will have a random weird delay on various obvious moves.

Re: Irwin – the protector of Lichess from all chess players villainous

#34

Post by zwkrt »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #22

I don’t understand what someone gets out of winning chess games by cheating. It would actually make me feel worse about myself.

There are people who’s sense of self-confidence is so fragile that they cannot allow themselves the possibility of losing or feeling “lesser than” in any context. Cheating and being banned is much better than showing the world your actual skill level and confronting the possibility of failure and judgment. The thought process goes something like “well if I beat them by cheating they’re a sucker for actually trying. And if I get banned then that’s the system out to get me”

Such a person often ends up making an absolute fool of themselves from the perspective of someone with a little bit more self integrity. But maybe it is worth extending a little compassion, after all a lack of compassion is probably how they ended up like that anyhow.

Re: Irwin – the protector of Lichess from all chess players villainous

#36

Post by synu »

dcow wrote: post #18
kzrdude wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New since 1994 or so

I never got into online chess. I’ve always played against physical humans or a bot.

There are people who have snuck chess computers into over the board tournaments as well, or used signaling from someone who had one.

Re: Irwin – the protector of Lichess from all chess players villainous

#38

Post by IntrepidWorm »

hgazx wrote: post #30
Snowflame wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trolling? No it isn't? If nothing else, the time issue is a huge one. Cheaters have very consistent seconds-per-move while actual masters make obvious moves instantly and pause on tougher moves.

I suppose that only completely newbie cheaters would think of taking the same amount of time to make each move. It’s like the first rule of pretending to be a human: add a random delay to all of your actions.

And yet time and time again, chess streamers and content producers run across people with newly formed accounts and perfect win records playing the best engine move at regular measured intervals.

If you are cunning enough to hold off on the best move for a few extra seconds to appear unaided by an engine, or if you blunder X% moves in your game (or simply play the 3rd or 4th rated move which still probably wins against most humans), chances are you'd do fine learning some chess strategy and playing the game unaided.

People keep asking why one would cheat at chess. I'm sure there are some bad actors who aim to disrupt the game, in a manner consistent with cheater motivations in other games. I'd imagine many cheaters are simply looking for some quick dopamine after being frustrated by a plateau in their skill.

Re: Irwin – the protector of Lichess from all chess players villainous

#40

Post by kelnos »

hgazx wrote: post #30
Snowflame wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trolling? No it isn't? If nothing else, the time issue is a huge one. Cheaters have very consistent seconds-per-move while actual masters make obvious moves instantly and pause on tougher moves.

I suppose that only completely newbie cheaters would think of taking the same amount of time to make each move. It’s like the first rule of pretending to be a human: add a random delay to all of your actions.

A random delay is also a tell, though. An obvious move shouldn't take 15 seconds, but if that's what the random delay for that move is, that looks suspicious. A more difficult move shouldn't take only 3 seconds, but if that's what the random delay for that move is, that also looks suspicious.
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