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Is the United States Exceptional?

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Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#31

Post by stevenwoo »

ncmncm wrote: post #22
WalterBright wrote: post #16

A nation founded on the principles of all men being created equal, along with inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is indeed exceptional. The results have been exceptional, too. The US does indeed have plenty of problems, but those problems are usually traceable to neglecting those founding principles.

At issue, where "exceptionalism" is concerned, is not what we do for ourselves, but what we do for and to others. Domestic policies are domestic, and not germane.

Also The Declaration of Independence is more an aspirational document that has almost nothing to do with the Constitution when it comes to laws, because some pigs were more equal than others, i.e. slaves and native Americans and women could not vote, and we are still dealing with problems from those parts and the undemocratic minority rule enshrined in the Constitution.

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#32

Post by mikkergp »

ncmncm wrote: post #10

There are two ways one may interpret "American exceptionalism". The first is that, being a rich country and democratically elected, our standards for fair and ethical behavior are higher than others'. We can afford to be generous and to be kind. Our declaration of universal human rights means we stick up for rights not just in our own territory, but for all our human sisters and brothers, extending due process to all…

> but it seems notable that Russia copied the verbiage that US published in support of invading Iraq, when they invaded Ukraine.

I don't think it is notable that Russia copied the verbiage of the US, this seems like a logical fallacy. Bad people will always quote the most powerful people to try and make a point, or try and weaken them. It doesn't mean it's good, it is just an irrelevant part of the argument.

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#33

Post by refurb »

karpierz wrote: post #26
WalterBright wrote: post #16

A nation founded on the principles of all men being created equal, along with inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is indeed exceptional. The results have been exceptional, too. The US does indeed have plenty of problems, but those problems are usually traceable to neglecting those founding principles.

> principles of all men being created equal, along with inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness Unless you're black. Or female. Or Asian. etc. Why does this founding myth persist?

Would you argue being African is better in Europe?

Being Asian in Asia?

Do they have the same freedoms? Face the same discrimination?

If your measure is perfection than no country meets your standards.

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#34

Post by tester756 »

srvmshr wrote: post #28
throwaway5959 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, now do positives.

Sure. The reasons where US shines & is able to draw talent is probably several of these: * US is absolutely the leader in innovation. No doubts about it. * Champion of democracy. The US political system & constitution has inspired a lot of other countries. Its a very immaculately drawn political system built on checks & balances * High degree of choices to an individual to shape his life * High degree of demographic…

>High degree of demographic diversity.

Why is it good? and for who?

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#35

Post by code_runner »

WalterBright wrote: post #16

A nation founded on the principles of all men being created equal, along with inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is indeed exceptional. The results have been exceptional, too. The US does indeed have plenty of problems, but those problems are usually traceable to neglecting those founding principles.

These principles are too vague and there are far too many interpretations.

They’re so vague that we find some people trying to decipher what someone living in in the 1700s would think about society today instead of updating our laws and principles to suit modern times.

Convoluted example: “Well smartphones didn’t exist in 1776, so you don’t have a right to pursue happiness on that medium”.

It’s so frustrating to see such partisan gridlock where the voice of the actual citizens are not heard and translated into laws and regulations.

I don’t know what my point really is, but I guess I’m saying it’s not so simple. We can’t boil it all down to a sentence or two.

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#36

Post by s1artibartfast »

ncmncm wrote: post #22
WalterBright wrote: post #16

A nation founded on the principles of all men being created equal, along with inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is indeed exceptional. The results have been exceptional, too. The US does indeed have plenty of problems, but those problems are usually traceable to neglecting those founding principles.

At issue, where "exceptionalism" is concerned, is not what we do for ourselves, but what we do for and to others. Domestic policies are domestic, and not germane.

what definition of exceptionalism are you using to come to that conclusion? Is it possible to be exceptionally narcistic or exceptionally sadistic?

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#37

Post by mikkergp »

srvmshr wrote: post #28
throwaway5959 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, now do positives.

Sure. The reasons where US shines & is able to draw talent is probably several of these: * US is absolutely the leader in innovation. No doubts about it. * Champion of democracy. The US political system & constitution has inspired a lot of other countries. Its a very immaculately drawn political system built on checks & balances * High degree of choices to an individual to shape his life * High degree of demographic…

How would you measure that the US is the leader in innovation.

US News says Japan: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/innovati....

World Intellectual Property Organization says Switzerland: https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2021/article_0008...

Bloomberg says South Korea: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-03/south-kor...

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#38

Post by pedalpete »

srvmshr wrote: post #11

US definitely has exceptional successes, but there are so many systemic flaws which other countries may or may not have, and where US could vastly improve. * High medical costs * Highest maternal mortality among developed countries * Highest income gaps * High education cost & the vicious circle of college debt. * Increasing trends of bankruptcy & paycheck-to-paycheck sustenance. * Lack of public transportation issue…

I was thinking along these lines as well. It's as if those who believe in American Exceptionalism and add up the metrics like the OP did think this is an addition only process.

Ok, you've created the greatest military power, but your country can rarely go through a day without mass shooting of it's own citizens by it's own citizens. How does your military power help your country if the greatest threat to it's citizens comes from your other citizens?

You created an economic power, but you can't afford to provide medical services to a huge portion of your population. When you do provide medical services, the costs are significantly higher than any in any other country. So what has your economic power purchased you? Another television? More sugary and unhealthy foods?

Re: Is the United States Exceptional?

#39

Post by ncmncm »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #36
ncmncm wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At issue, where "exceptionalism" is concerned, is not what we do for ourselves, but what we do for and to others. Domestic policies are domestic, and not germane.

what definition of exceptionalism are you using to come to that conclusion? Is it possible to be exceptionally narcistic or exceptionally sadistic?

Clearly the ambiguity is taken advantage of wherever convenient.
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