America Is in Denial • Hacker News Board

Re: America Is in Denial

#31

Post by zaptheimpaler » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

Apreche wrote: post #18

Overtonwindow wrote: post #5

What I find most fascinating is that this reads completely counter to the authors supposed ideology and public positions, in a way that I'm not quite sure where they stand. It keeps changing so much.

The word you’re looking for is hypocrisy. If Mitch really believed in climate change, he could vote to end the fillibuster, pass a green new deal, not appoint judges to the Supreme Court who vote against the EPA. He doesn’t have one ounce of the bravery or leadership he claims to be looking for.

Mitt Romney is the author, not Mitch.

Re: America Is in Denial

#32

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:35 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: America Is in Denial

#33

Post by noobermin » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

kory wrote: post #23

finfinfin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Residential water use has plummeted in the west. Some areas, like vegas, use less water than the 70s, not accounting for population changes. What's the point of this argument? Vegas population has increased more than 10x since the 70s, why would we not account for population growth when discussing the usage of a limited resource?

I think you misunderstood. Vegas uses less water in total than in the 70s, in spite of the population difference.

Does this include the suburbs of Las Vegas? A quick google search gives a report that the whole state of Nevada as a whole has increased their water use (edit: at least for domestic usage). This is in line with most of the population moving out of city centers as people moved into the suburbs that has happened for the last few decades.[0]

Anyway, the fact that the water use of the state as a whole has increased throws out any suggestion that "here, this one segment of the state has decreased their usage" as if that is a serious argument against the rise of water consumption being an issue.

[0] It's a report with data until 1995 but lucky for us it compares levels with 1970 and it did increase significantly EDIT: sorry, figure 1-3

http://water.nv.gov/programs/planning/stateplan/documents/pt...

Re: America Is in Denial

#34

Post by finfinfin » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

kory wrote: post #23

finfinfin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Residential water use has plummeted in the west. Some areas, like vegas, use less water than the 70s, not accounting for population changes. What's the point of this argument? Vegas population has increased more than 10x since the 70s, why would we not account for population growth when discussing the usage of a limited resource?

I think you misunderstood. Vegas uses less water in total than in the 70s, in spite of the population difference.

I find this very hard to believe. Do you have any links to official state data?

Re: America Is in Denial

#35

Post by kitten_mittens_ » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:38 PM UTC

Overtonwindow wrote: post #5

What I find most fascinating is that this reads completely counter to the authors supposed ideology and public positions, in a way that I'm not quite sure where they stand. It keeps changing so much.

While I don't find myself in the author's company politically, I do think that the Mormon center right can be much less aggressive than folks expect from Fox News et al.

Re: America Is in Denial

#36

Post by Skunkleton » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:40 PM UTC

kory wrote: post #26

Skunkleton wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yet again blaming individuals' choices when large corporations are by far the largest global polluters. Corporations don’t exist. There are only individual people.

Take amazon, for example. Fine the corporation for using excessive packaging at scale. People don't have a choice of what packaging they receive.

A person makes the decisions on what packaging Amazon uses. A person makes the decision to purchase goods from Amazon. A person makes the decision to not propose regulations.

Corporations are logical entities made up of individuals. Individuals still make the choices. Individuals must be accountable.

Re: America Is in Denial

#37

Post by Sharlin » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:47 PM UTC

gedy wrote: post #14

rob74 wrote: post #7

> When entire countries fail to confront serious challenges, it doesn't end well. At least in the case of global warming, the US are in good company: the whole world is failing (some more, some less, but nevertheless all failing) to confront the challenge.

I like to think of it as there are no borders in the atmosphere (nor 'per capita').

There are no borders in any commons by definition; that's exactly the tragedy of commons.

Re: America Is in Denial

#38

Post by finfinfin » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:48 PM UTC

throwaway787544 wrote: post #30

You can't fix a dish that has rotten ingredients. You have to throw the dish away and start over.

What is the dish in this analogy? Plant Earth or Mitt Romney?

Re: America Is in Denial

#39

Post by Sharlin » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #28

kory wrote: post #4

> Even as we watch the reservoirs and lakes of the West go dry, we keep watering our lawns, soaking our golf courses, and growing water-thirsty crops. Residential water use has plummeted in the west. Some areas, like vegas, use less water than the 70s, not accounting for population changes. Arizona is the second best residential water manager in the world behind Israel. Agriculture uses the lion's share of water and…

I do not think "agriculture[...] can be cut off when things get really tight." Everyone in the US has been bleeting about inflation for months, suppressing food production would make people slam their cars into buildings.

The most water-thirsty crops are luxury foods like almonds.

Re: America Is in Denial

#40

Post by hotpotamus » Mon, Jul 04, 2022, 3:51 PM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #24

On one hand, where I want to give Mitt Romney some benefit of the doubt for being sincere (and he probably is somewhat) in his conviction where he eventually stood against the leader of his own political party, he did, in the beginning, try to rosy up to Trump in the early months, producing a now infamous photo of him looking rather submissive, smiling with Trump at a dinner table after opposing him during the 2016 p…

There's a reason Mitt Romney and Donald Trump are members of the same party (and Mitt Romney considered Trump's endorsement key in 2012). There's also a reason that Vladimir Putin considered it relevant to his interests to tip the scales to their party in 2016.