I am curious to see how this plays out with the coming recession (hiring freezes instituted already). I suspect that #3 segment will prove to be ephemeral - a result of fed's QE unlimited regime.
The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
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Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe they do, maybe not? I mean that is exactly the same argument SFBA-based engineers can also claim. I believe it is mostly untrue. When I studied in Vienna a fellow student of mine returned to Poland after uni because his wife wanted to & we both started our first jobs as juniors at the same time with comparable positions, me in Vienna and him in Gdansk. His salary was almost exactly 1/3 of mine & I don't believe…
How long ago was that? Are you guys still in touch? Because it seems to me that recently developer salaries in Poland matched or even surpassed those in Austria :)
I don't think this is likely to be true at a population level; Austria is a much richer country than Poland; has a much higher standard of education and in other sectors salaries are usually higher in Austria than Poland.
Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe they do, maybe not? I mean that is exactly the same argument SFBA-based engineers can also claim. I believe it is mostly untrue. When I studied in Vienna a fellow student of mine returned to Poland after uni because his wife wanted to & we both started our first jobs as juniors at the same time with comparable positions, me in Vienna and him in Gdansk. His salary was almost exactly 1/3 of mine & I don't believe…
Your example is anectodal, hence basically worthless. There is a lot of inefficieny in the market, some of it inherent, some of it due to artifical constraints like location, but over time those tend to naturally get normalized. What I'm trying to say is that if it really were better for software to be built in Vietnam for 10% of the cost, that would just happen. It may be that companies have not figured out this nea…
lmao the free market does not exist.
Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
#34I am curious to see how this plays out with the coming recession (hiring freezes instituted already). I suspect that #3 segment will prove to be ephemeral - a result of fed's QE unlimited regime.
Booking.com, quoted in the article, is a prime example of what happens when those companies are squeezed. They let a lot of people go in 2020, haphazardly, then they scrambled to re-hire as wheels started falling off their platform. I turned them down despite them offering a good salary bump.
Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> you get the choice of what you want to buy in the US. Not really in my experience. You get to choose between providers in your insurance network, but I've lost count of the number of times my preferred provider wasn't in my network. On top of that, the insurance company has to sign off on many diagnostic tests even when my doctor wants to do one. I'm experiencing this right now with chronic pain associated with an…
Might it not be possible to have your doctor write some "PT not possible"/"PT may result in additional injury" note? Failing which, is it possible to speak with someone higher up at your insurance company? I do not know your background, but if you have sufficient resources (well, mainly money) it might be easier to contact an injury/similar lawyer and have them represent you to talk, and perhaps go to the legal dept…
My doctor conveyed my situation in his request for the imaging and was denied. I'm basically going to my PT appointments and doing nothing because the treatment is painful, which is wasting their time and resources. It's cheaper to just commit this waste than to talk to a lawyer because the insurance company represents its shareholders, not its clients.
I'm not saying that healthcare is perfect outside of the US, but a common argument for the US system is this idea of "choice", which is ultimately just a set of dark patterns that create the illusion of choice.
Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
A common criticism is that “but you get so much more for your taxes in Europe”. I have a counterpoint - you get the choice of what you want to buy in the US. I’d rather keep more of my take-home pay and do without certain services, or better yet choose the provider (and quality / expense) of such services if I want them. Somehow the bureaucracy in the US is still massive, so I can only imagine what far higher tax rat…
Tax rates at the higher taxed states in the US (like California) are actually not lower than in western europe while still not providing you with all the services western european governments do.
For high earners it's still higher in EU, about 50% vs 40% but yeah it's not that significant.
Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
#37Unfortunately this misses the difference in taxation vs. the US. You pay almost nothing for healthcare at any tech company and pay much lower taxes (both income and sales tax). So European offers are still much less competitive than the US.
A common criticism is that “but you get so much more for your taxes in Europe”. I have a counterpoint - you get the choice of what you want to buy in the US. I’d rather keep more of my take-home pay and do without certain services, or better yet choose the provider (and quality / expense) of such services if I want them. Somehow the bureaucracy in the US is still massive, so I can only imagine what far higher tax rat…
Even if (which it almost certainly isn't) what you claim is true, the point of paying taxes is not just about what you immediately, materially gain but (a) to support people on lower incomes and (b) to fund things like R&D projects (e.g. the www is a result of state-funded CERN) and infrastructure which would be too expensive to build personally (e.g. roads, railway tracks to ship goods to ones house), etc
Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
#38Without taxes the per country salaries are only meaningful to employers? The 55000 would be 4580 per month or 38400 and 3200 after tax in NL.
Depending on the company you can easily spend 8 hours on extra nonsense during free hours: unpaid breaks, long commutes, messages, phone calls.
IMHO it's a crap deal compared to other jobs.
Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
#39I am curious to see how this plays out with the coming recession (hiring freezes instituted already). I suspect that #3 segment will prove to be ephemeral - a result of fed's QE unlimited regime.
If you look at Google, Apple, Amazon, etc's balance sheets they're quite solid, not really at this point propped up by monetary policy any more.
Re: The trimodal nature of software salaries in the Netherlands and Europe (2021)
#40Unfortunately this misses the difference in taxation vs. the US. You pay almost nothing for healthcare at any tech company and pay much lower taxes (both income and sales tax). So European offers are still much less competitive than the US.
The difference between UK and some of the Western-EU countries is already significant enough. No need to go straight to USA.
Not so sure, as a junior in the UK I got a raise moving to Spain of all places... from London.