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Why I’m Cryptophobic

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Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#31

Post by yakak »

bluetomcat wrote: post #8
peyton wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don’t buy the old taxes-make-the-money-work chestnut. Far too many counterexamples.

Paying taxes in a given currency means that the government forces the use of that currency nation-wide. Without a central tax authority requiring that currency, groups of people could start exchanging, say, peanuts for the mutual exchange of goods and services. Since you can't pay your taxes in peanuts, you would want to hold national currency instead of peanuts.

I would want to exchange peanuts and consequently owe no taxes. That is why the US has very complicated rules to discourage bartering and gives every sign it would complicate and eventually outlaw quid-pro-quo family/friend arrangements for things like child and elder care if large and powerful groups of people weren't still extended family oriented.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#32

Post by mjburgess »

hackernudes wrote: post #23
mjburgess wrote: post #4

There needs to be some basic economics here.. Money has value because of the value of the economic transactions in which its conducted. Government-backed currencies are forced to have value in the sense they force people to use it for their taxes. The US, additionally, forces the world to use it for oil trades. Value is in those economic transactions. A currency is just a "liquifying" of that value, to make it easier…

So scarcity pays no role in value? Is the Mona Lisa not valuable? If money is printed it doesn't lose value? Why would Bitcoin collapse if it was used at "any" scale? Low max transactions per second? It is used by some people (even if not many) to pay for real things as well as wages! Are you saying an "economic" transaction has to be a commodity or taxes? I think any specific currency is valuable because people beli…

Every crypto coin trading at 0USD is likewise scarce.

You need to pay attention to the actual economic transactions taking place. Looking at a graph of pure speculative value and calling it an economy is, more or less, a scam.

You'll see that when it all disappears.. moreso than the cashflow of, eg., an actual business.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#33

Post by soneca »

endisneigh wrote: post #19

I’d be more interested in seeing what number of crypto buyers are underwater. Despite popular belief the amount of people who own Bitcoin exponentially decreases the further back you go. I’d be impressed if more than a thousand people who owned Bitcoin a decade ago still own the same bitcoins. My thesis looking at the volume and prices during the pandemic is that most people who own Bitcoin still despite the price in…

Not exactly what you asked and I am not sure how correct is this number [0], but it is said that the average Bitcoin purchase price is $21k.

You can’t tell how many buyers are underwater from the average buying price being higher than currently price, but it does tell you that a lot of people is currently losing money with Bitcoin.

[0] https://m.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/survey-showed...

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#34

Post by nixpulvis »

hackernudes wrote: post #23
mjburgess wrote: post #4

There needs to be some basic economics here.. Money has value because of the value of the economic transactions in which its conducted. Government-backed currencies are forced to have value in the sense they force people to use it for their taxes. The US, additionally, forces the world to use it for oil trades. Value is in those economic transactions. A currency is just a "liquifying" of that value, to make it easier…

So scarcity pays no role in value? Is the Mona Lisa not valuable? If money is printed it doesn't lose value? Why would Bitcoin collapse if it was used at "any" scale? Low max transactions per second? It is used by some people (even if not many) to pay for real things as well as wages! Are you saying an "economic" transaction has to be a commodity or taxes? I think any specific currency is valuable because people beli…

Another issue of HN debates values.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#35

Post by treeman79 »

solotronics wrote: post #6
mjburgess wrote: post #4

There needs to be some basic economics here.. Money has value because of the value of the economic transactions in which its conducted. Government-backed currencies are forced to have value in the sense they force people to use it for their taxes. The US, additionally, forces the world to use it for oil trades. Value is in those economic transactions. A currency is just a "liquifying" of that value, to make it easier…

Gold having value over a long period of time is a counter argument. Nobody is transacting in gold yet it is valuable.

Long hold for Aluminum didn’t exactly work out.

https://www.americaslibrary.gov/jb/gilded/jb_gilded_monument...

I actually agree with you. :)

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#36

Post by tromp »

> And similarly, crypto rewards its early followers and doesn’t promise an expanded pie, but a changing of the guard.

Nearly all crypto does indeed concentrate wealth onto early adopters, by emitting the majority of supply in the first few years (or even all at launch).

But fixing the block subsidy avoids such concentration, leaving most supply to later generations, much like gold.

Such a purely linear emission deters speculation while encouraging use as a currency.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#37

Post by theplumber »

hackernudes wrote: post #23
mjburgess wrote: post #4

There needs to be some basic economics here.. Money has value because of the value of the economic transactions in which its conducted. Government-backed currencies are forced to have value in the sense they force people to use it for their taxes. The US, additionally, forces the world to use it for oil trades. Value is in those economic transactions. A currency is just a "liquifying" of that value, to make it easier…

So scarcity pays no role in value? Is the Mona Lisa not valuable? If money is printed it doesn't lose value? Why would Bitcoin collapse if it was used at "any" scale? Low max transactions per second? It is used by some people (even if not many) to pay for real things as well as wages! Are you saying an "economic" transaction has to be a commodity or taxes? I think any specific currency is valuable because people beli…

I think Bitcoin will have as much value as the hypercard protocol has now. It's not really as valuable as Mona Lisa but you could say it has some value.

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#38

Post by waynecochran »

mjburgess wrote: post #4

There needs to be some basic economics here.. Money has value because of the value of the economic transactions in which its conducted. Government-backed currencies are forced to have value in the sense they force people to use it for their taxes. The US, additionally, forces the world to use it for oil trades. Value is in those economic transactions. A currency is just a "liquifying" of that value, to make it easier…

I don't follow the last statement. If a cryptocurrency was used for decentralized buying and selling, folks were not using it for speculation, and thus it became a stable currency would it not flourish?

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#39

Post by lamp987 »

zach_garwood wrote: post #12
solotronics wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold having value over a long period of time is a counter argument. Nobody is transacting in gold yet it is valuable.

Gold has utility. You can't make circuits out of Bitcoins.

You think gold has the value it has because a miniscule amount of it is used in circuits?

Re: Why I’m Cryptophobic

#40

Post by immigrantheart »

I wonder if there is a balance between the:

- "The future I fear is one with a new anarcho-libertarian power structure that lacks transparency, accountability, and is the antithesis of democracy."

- "I truly trust that my government is capable to govern and have my best interests in mind"

Because I know I am stuck in between the two extremes. Crypto is just a way to hedge the possibility the 2nd one goes rogue.

But the crazy part is, yes I am aware of all the points in the article above, but that's exactly why I do crypto.

This article is soooo good I will give it to my peers every time they ask me "why crypto"

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