The Value of an Undergraduate Degree • Hacker News Board

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#31

Post by _8j50 » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:00 PM UTC

vehemenz wrote: post #13

_8j50 wrote: post #10

If you like college good for you. But the first two years are bullshit. The last two, you should be able to learn them on the job for many career tracks and test them out. Articulate for me exactly why biology, chemistry, philosophy,etc... are neccesary for a Compsci or IT degree? Because the british said so many centuries ago is not a good reason. Neither is "what about the profits of colleges". We put up with 12 ye…

Anyone making an argument against the value of philosophy usually fails because they don't have the analytical/argumentative toolkit to construct a good argument. Precisely because they didn't study philosophy. And if they had, they probably wouldn't be making the argument in the first place.

I don't have anything against philosophy man, I just don't to be forced into debt and lose valuable time to learn someone else's philosophy. And even that a very western centric perspective. And how is that relevant to compsci undergrad?

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#32

Post by dj_mc_merlin » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:00 PM UTC

> Imagine learning to play music by fooling around with a piano and discovering that some keys sound good together. Even if after a while you begin to structure music that sounds halfway decent, if you ever want to get good and collaborate with other musicians, you're going to have to start from the beginning and learn theory, chords, and musical notation.

Sure, like Bowie. Or Prince. Or McCartney. Wait..

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#33

Post by andreilys » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #23

It was the mid-2010s and "college dropout" was the mark of an up-and-coming genius. Headlines were questioning the need for degrees at all and billionaire Peter Thiel was awarding high school graduates $100,000 not to attend college and become entrepreneurs instead. "Not long ago, dropping out of school to start a company was considered risky," wrote the Wall Street Journal. "For this generation, it is a badge of hon…

Plenty of thiel fellows have started billion/multi million dollar companies (figma, ethereum, luminar, upstart, etc.), so it seems that $100k had been enough for them.

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#34

Post by the_only_law » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #25

paulpauper wrote: post #23

It was the mid-2010s and "college dropout" was the mark of an up-and-coming genius. Headlines were questioning the need for degrees at all and billionaire Peter Thiel was awarding high school graduates $100,000 not to attend college and become entrepreneurs instead. "Not long ago, dropping out of school to start a company was considered risky," wrote the Wall Street Journal. "For this generation, it is a badge of hon…

> Thiel had 2 big successes, those being Facebook and PayPal How easy it is to brush aside two of the largest tech successes of the last 20 years!

Two of the most beloved tech companies at that!

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#35

Post by Rumudiez » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #10

If you like college good for you. But the first two years are bullshit. The last two, you should be able to learn them on the job for many career tracks and test them out. Articulate for me exactly why biology, chemistry, philosophy,etc... are neccesary for a Compsci or IT degree? Because the british said so many centuries ago is not a good reason. Neither is "what about the profits of colleges". We put up with 12 ye…

This is a benefit of getting a BFA. BA has the fewest credit hours in your major, BS has more, but BFA requires the most. Out of 4 years in my program I only took 3 classes unrelated to my major and didn’t have to pay my college for any sort of P.E. class. A decade later and I see plenty of people working in my field with BA and BS degrees who still didn’t know even basic things because their college programs were so sidetracked with these credit requirements.

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#36

Post by 11101010001100 » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

vehemenz wrote: post #13

_8j50 wrote: post #10

If you like college good for you. But the first two years are bullshit. The last two, you should be able to learn them on the job for many career tracks and test them out. Articulate for me exactly why biology, chemistry, philosophy,etc... are neccesary for a Compsci or IT degree? Because the british said so many centuries ago is not a good reason. Neither is "what about the profits of colleges". We put up with 12 ye…

Anyone making an argument against the value of philosophy usually fails because they don't have the analytical/argumentative toolkit to construct a good argument. Precisely because they didn't study philosophy. And if they had, they probably wouldn't be making the argument in the first place.

This is right. I try to make a point to STEM graduate students that it is called a Doctor of Philosophy for a good reason.

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#37

Post by _8j50 » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:04 PM UTC

ryanklee wrote: post #26

_8j50 wrote: post #10

If you like college good for you. But the first two years are bullshit. The last two, you should be able to learn them on the job for many career tracks and test them out. Articulate for me exactly why biology, chemistry, philosophy,etc... are neccesary for a Compsci or IT degree? Because the british said so many centuries ago is not a good reason. Neither is "what about the profits of colleges". We put up with 12 ye…

University is not trade school. There is more function there than simply learning to do the narrow job one believes the future may have in store for them. Here are some others: - Obtain fodder for sufficient individuation - Find sexual mates - Find platonic mates - Learn many disconnected things - Learn many connected things - Learn to take criticism in the open - Learn to render criticism in the open - Engage divers…

I am glad you like those things but for most people an undergrad degree is a piece of paper and a line on the resume. If it does not help me with my job and future income it should not be mandatory for employers to require it. I have no problem with degrees not required by employers. If you apply at a tech company and get rejected because of lack of undergrad degree then are you saying becoming "a robust citizen of the universe" and finding sexual mates was why?

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#38

Post by corrral » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:04 PM UTC

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #6

> College will teach you to write, and ideally, to speak as well. Even just simple frameworks like the five paragraph essay or thesis-antithesis-synthesis work wonders for idea organization. It's critical to be able to organize your thoughts into a loose structure of "introduction", "what people have previously thought", "what I think", "reasons others might disagree and why they're wrong," and "conclusion." At one t…

Innumeracy gets a lot of play on here but I've met an awful lot of college graduates—even those with higher degrees—who aren't technically illiterate but are fairly incompetent readers. I'm not convinced the situation with mathematics is unique—poor readers seem to be a solid majority, even among the college educated. I do think attitudes about the two are different, which may be why the situations look different. People will readily tell you that they're bad at math. To figure out that they're awful readers requires observation, and it's a lot less polite to talk about.

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#39

Post by andreilys » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

ryanklee wrote: post #26

_8j50 wrote: post #10

If you like college good for you. But the first two years are bullshit. The last two, you should be able to learn them on the job for many career tracks and test them out. Articulate for me exactly why biology, chemistry, philosophy,etc... are neccesary for a Compsci or IT degree? Because the british said so many centuries ago is not a good reason. Neither is "what about the profits of colleges". We put up with 12 ye…

University is not trade school. There is more function there than simply learning to do the narrow job one believes the future may have in store for them. Here are some others: - Obtain fodder for sufficient individuation - Find sexual mates - Find platonic mates - Learn many disconnected things - Learn many connected things - Learn to take criticism in the open - Learn to render criticism in the open - Engage divers…

You don’t need to go to college to do any of that.

The same can be accomplished with a year of travel and a year of internships/apprenticeships.

Also I think at this point it’s safe to say that a college environment does not in any way shape or form engage diversify. It tends to be a monolithic culture that is hostile to contrarian views that may disrupt may d disrupt the status quo.

Re: The Value of an Undergraduate Degree

#40

Post by paulpauper » Tue, Jun 21, 2022, 4:05 PM UTC

andreilys wrote: post #33

paulpauper wrote: post #23

It was the mid-2010s and "college dropout" was the mark of an up-and-coming genius. Headlines were questioning the need for degrees at all and billionaire Peter Thiel was awarding high school graduates $100,000 not to attend college and become entrepreneurs instead. "Not long ago, dropping out of school to start a company was considered risky," wrote the Wall Street Journal. "For this generation, it is a badge of hon…

Plenty of thiel fellows have started billion/multi million dollar companies (figma, ethereum, luminar, upstart, etc.), so it seems that $100k had been enough for them.

But was this with the $100k. I am guessing they got chosen by Thiel and then with his connections raised a lot of funding later from someone else. There is no way you can start a successful tech company with just $100k. Things are so expensive. Maybe 100k is good enough for a hobby but you are not going to make a living off that.