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Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

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Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#31

Post by sdfhdhjdw3 »

Victerius wrote: post #2

James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way. Has theoretical physics advanced enough now that such pen and paper discoveries are all but over, and the only way to continue making progress is to dedicate an ever larger share of the global economy's productive capacity to building larger and more expensive experiments? Wha…

> James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way.

This is hilarious, because these days the criticism of physics is that it's all "theories and ideas".

> But what if? Should we just ... give up on particle physics?

Should we just give up on learning?

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#32

Post by hobs »

brnaftr361 wrote: post #26
adtac wrote: post #6

I only have an amateur interest in physics, so I'm sorry if this sounds dumb, but I often think about what if we've reached as far as we can go within the current framework of physics? This is more meta-science than actual science, but what if we made some decisions very early in the development of physics and mathematics and we need to revisit those?

If the pattern Kuhn shows in The Structure of a Scientific Revolution holds, one might presume at some time a crisis will emerge which will influence the development of higher resolution tools and techniques and with them more evidence. The "nightmare" seems like exactly what is outlined as a predictable error in the model - it'll be interesting to see what happens.

I don't think that's what the book says, just that solving problems with the new framework is what makes it popular enough with the next generation.

More specificity or higher resolution is not implied, though it can happen after the paradigm has shifted as a new set of niches are waiting to be explored and filled.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#33

Post by redler »

dlsa wrote: post #14
Victerius wrote: post #2

James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way. Has theoretical physics advanced enough now that such pen and paper discoveries are all but over, and the only way to continue making progress is to dedicate an ever larger share of the global economy's productive capacity to building larger and more expensive experiments? Wha…

Paperclips are important! We need to optimise paperclip production! some time later The entire universe is one giant paperclip constructor.

You may find the Universal Paperclips game amusing.

https://www.decisionproblem.com/paperclips/index2.html

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#34

Post by pizzaknife »

sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #28

Oh jesus christ, the constant whining! This is science. This is how it works. Maybe there's nothing else to discover, maybe it will take us 100 years, we don't know, that's why it's called research.

literally my sentiments exactly. Next thing you know, someone will be clamoring to make the LHC a profit center and complain about its solvency!

edit: I have no dog in the fight, but I do appreciate the concept of "Art for Art's sake." To me, the LHC embodies the physics equiv of that statement.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#35

Post by highwaylights »

Grimburger wrote: post #30
sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #28

Oh jesus christ, the constant whining! This is science. This is how it works. Maybe there's nothing else to discover, maybe it will take us 100 years, we don't know, that's why it's called research.

> Maybe there's nothing else to discover, maybe it will take us 100 years, we don't know, that's why it's called research. At what price?

Less than it cost to research, develop and manufacture all of the components in the device you typed this on.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#36

Post by mhh__ »

adtac wrote: post #6

I only have an amateur interest in physics, so I'm sorry if this sounds dumb, but I often think about what if we've reached as far as we can go within the current framework of physics? This is more meta-science than actual science, but what if we made some decisions very early in the development of physics and mathematics and we need to revisit those?

There is still huge amounts of work to do in the less fundamental aspects of physics.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#37

Post by yread »

Victerius wrote: post #2

James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way. Has theoretical physics advanced enough now that such pen and paper discoveries are all but over, and the only way to continue making progress is to dedicate an ever larger share of the global economy's productive capacity to building larger and more expensive experiments? Wha…

Reminds me of an old joke about our uni:

Physicists keep coming to the head of the university with new requests for buying expensive machines. At some point it's one too many and he exclaims:

"Can't you be more like the mathematicians? They need just pens, paper and a paper bin! Or the philosophers?! They need just pens and paper."

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#38

Post by [deleted] »

mr_mitm wrote: post #10
Victerius wrote: post #2

James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way. Has theoretical physics advanced enough now that such pen and paper discoveries are all but over, and the only way to continue making progress is to dedicate an ever larger share of the global economy's productive capacity to building larger and more expensive experiments? Wha…

> James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way. > Has theoretical physics advanced enough now that such pen and paper discoveries are all but over, and the only way to continue making progress is to dedicate an ever larger share of the global economy's productive capacity to building larger and more expensive experiments?…

[deleted]

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#39

Post by Grimburger »

highwaylights wrote: post #35
Grimburger wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe there's nothing else to discover, maybe it will take us 100 years, we don't know, that's why it's called research. At what price?

Less than it cost to research, develop and manufacture all of the components in the device you typed this on.

I'd put that amortised cost at about $1000 upfront in 2022 dollars for my high quality internet comment and many others like it.

If you need high energy, pure vacuums and ultra low temps, surely space is where such experiments should be conducted on bigger scales in future to push it further?

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#40

Post by piokoch »

Victerius wrote: post #2

James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way. Has theoretical physics advanced enough now that such pen and paper discoveries are all but over, and the only way to continue making progress is to dedicate an ever larger share of the global economy's productive capacity to building larger and more expensive experiments? Wha…

And how much time Maxwell or Einstein spent on their research and how much time on chasing grants and tenure positions? Were they required to publish X papers a year, target assigned by some university manager? Were they forced to amuse and be nice for their students, so they will look good on yearly teacher's assessment?
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